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 S8E1: Deep Breath (SPOILERS)

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Rate S8E1: Deep Breath
FANTASTIC!
19%
 19% [ 6 ]
Good!
44%
 44% [ 14 ]
Okay...
25%
 25% [ 8 ]
Bad
12%
 12% [ 4 ]
AWFUL!
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 32
 

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Evil Monkey Pope
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PostSubject: Re: S8E1: Deep Breath (SPOILERS)   Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:25 am

This was so much better than the previous episode!
Capaldi is great. He seems a bit like Tom Baker.
This episode was all about how Clara sucks ... & it worked? It acknowledged that saying how special Clara is without demonstrating why did not make for a good character while meta-criticizing fans who freaked out over an old Doctor. I liked how she was able to call the automaton's ultimatum bluff.
This was a well directed episode in how kinetic everything felt.
Strax whacking Clara with the paper & plotting to boil the Doctor in oil was the best.
The skin blimp was creepy & elegant.
I'm thinking Missy is the Master.
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Ronpur
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PostSubject: Re: S8E1: Deep Breath (SPOILERS)   Sun Aug 24, 2014 8:29 am

Over all, I enjoyed it.  The Clockwork Droids were very creepy, and the restaurant diners especially so.  I like that we did not see the Doctor kill the Captain, but in fact, made to assume he talked him into jumping.  Like the Doctor has always done, get others to fight his battles, this time, he had the villain off himself.  Reminded me a bit of Captain Kirk confusing a computer into self destruct!  

There were a lot of good one liners, many of which were hits on previous events.  I don't know how many times I wanted to scream at the Doctor that they were Clockwork Droids when he could not seam to remember.

It was different to see 11 calling Clara in the future, and his reaction to getting old.  Another swipe at the fans who didn't approve of Capaldi's choice?

I liked the references to the dinosaur and the Silurians being contemporaries, but wasn't that T-Rex a little to large?

I can't wait to watch it again, without the distractions of friends watching with me and commercials, to pick out other details.
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PostSubject: Re: S8E1: Deep Breath (SPOILERS)   Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:18 am

Capaldi nailed it in his first showing as the Doctor. What a refreshing change to know upfront that he will not be Clara's 'boyfriend' and this incarnation is not much for hugging - a very long time coming. I also saw hints of the 4th now and then. It was cute how he was referring to everyone being so English when he is now so very Scottish and even landing in Glasgow at the end.

The pacing was also a welcome change but I could have done without the standalone bits between Clara/Strax (can you say filler much) or Matt's unnecessary appearance. Also, Missy's bit at the end wasn't needed either (this could have been used later which the episode focuses on the character). Also a bit weird was Clara having difficulty accepting the Doctor in his new incarnation when of all the companions she should have been the most accepting.

Also, I saw from another reviewer site that the hobo was played by Elisabeth Sladen's (e.g., Sarah Jane's) widower. The same site also noted Clara 'seems to be the utter reincarnation of Sarah Jane Smith' in one of the scenes. That is just a big fat no. I still having issues with this supposed impossible girl and she is definitely no Sarah Jane, a truly loved and memorable companion. The show still needs to work on balancing the Doctor / companion ratio. I want more Doctor and less companion (soon companions) focus please.

Really liked the new intro titles (though I wish they kept the Gallifrey logo from the original concept).

Overall, Capaldi will be a great Doctor and hopefully will stay for a long time and may even usurp Tennant as being my fave Doctor in new Who. During the Smith era, really lost interest in the show (can you say the Amy Pond show) but now I can see myself re-watching the episodes after they aired (will definitely be doing so for last night's show) like I used to. Not sure about everyone else, but I still can't watch this show real time with the commercial breaks. It just doesn't seem right (especially having watched the classic show on PBS uncut) so it's time delayed-DVR watching or viewing it by other means.

Lastly, was anyone else annoyed by the pre-show which was a total waste of 15 minutes' delay. Didn't even bother with the post-show.
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PostSubject: Re: S8E1: Deep Breath (SPOILERS)   Sun Aug 24, 2014 10:01 am

Okay for me.

Most of it did not impress me. Clueless post-regen Doc, been there before... not what I want to see. Tone and plot was average. Didn't really care what was going on. Just wanted the episode to be over with to get to the next one so we can see what the normal Doc is going to be like

The things I did like:

The new opening sequence

The Pater Noster gang (who I always love). Once they got going, the only episodes I looked forward to watching were theirs.

The final scenes with Clara when the Doc returns to the past to pick her up. If that is going to be the new Doc's tone, I can get back to watching Nu Who to see the Doc again, not just for the other characters.




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D84
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PostSubject: Re: S8E1: Deep Breath (SPOILERS)   Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:22 am

Rust wrote:
D84 wrote:
The whole thing with Clara not being able to handle the regeneration made no sense.  She's the only companion who has known all the Doctors.

Clara was being used as the mouth piece for the fandom that complained about Capaldi's casting because he is older and "not sexy".

I understand why they did it, but it's completely out of character. Honestly, it felt like cheap pandering to the 16 year old girls who are in love with Matt Smith.
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PostSubject: Re: S8E1: Deep Breath (SPOILERS)   Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:38 am

D84 wrote:
Rust wrote:
D84 wrote:
The whole thing with Clara not being able to handle the regeneration made no sense.  She's the only companion who has known all the Doctors.

Clara was being used as the mouth piece for the fandom that complained about Capaldi's casting because he is older and "not sexy".

I understand why they did it, but it's completely out of character.  Honestly, it felt like cheap pandering to the 16 year old girls who are in love with Matt Smith.

I don't know, it didn't seem so out of character to me. It's one thing to know The Doctor changes, it's another to lose your Doctor. Isn't that what we as the audience go through too? It wasn't that Clara didn't understand that this is now The Doctor; it's that she didn't immediately see in him the things about him she came to know with 11.
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PostSubject: Re: S8E1: Deep Breath (SPOILERS)   Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:43 am

Ronpur wrote:
Over all, I enjoyed it.  The Clockwork Droids were very creepy, and the restaurant diners especially so.  I like that we did not see the Doctor kill the Captain, but in fact, made to assume he talked him into jumping.  Like the Doctor has always done, get others to fight his battles, this time, he had the villain off himself.  Reminded me a bit of Captain Kirk confusing a computer into self destruct! 

I have no idea if The Doctor pushed the Clockwork or he jumped. One of them was lying, but which? Love that it is ambiguous. Of course, we assume The Doctor can't murder based on past incarnations, but is that necessarily true about 12? Definitely in line with "returning an air of mystery to The Doctor" Capaldi has talked about in interviews.
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PostSubject: Re: S8E1: Deep Breath (SPOILERS)   Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:46 am

D84 wrote:
Rust wrote:
D84 wrote:
The whole thing with Clara not being able to handle the regeneration made no sense.  She's the only companion who has known all the Doctors.

Clara was being used as the mouth piece for the fandom that complained about Capaldi's casting because he is older and "not sexy".

I understand why they did it, but it's completely out of character.  Honestly, it felt like cheap pandering to the 16 year old girls who are in love with Matt Smith.

Out of character? What character?! This is the first time she's had a bloomin' character... Razz
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PostSubject: Re: S8E1: Deep Breath (SPOILERS)   Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:50 am

I forgot to mention the new title sequence in my post. I like it. They're okay. It's something different. It definitely feels more serious and Classic, but I don't know, I'm just not overwhelmed with excitement by them.

As for Missy... Urgh... Not really interested... Unless she's another incarnation of River then I don't care. If she's a completely new person then no thanks. I really don't want yet ANOTHER 'mysterious special woman'. The concept is boring now. If it's an incarnation of someone we've already seen then I don't mind - River is the only one of these 'special' people that I find interesting and entertaining. As for the suggestions in this thread about Missy being the Master... No. Thank. You. No
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PostSubject: Re: S8E1: Deep Breath (SPOILERS)   Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:56 am

I thought this would have made a great 40 min. episode, but it lags as a 75 min.special. Too much filler. I think Peter Capaldi will make a fine Doctor, and I look forward to seeing more of Michelle Gomez. Hopefully, her character will turnout to be less scenery-chewing as previous Dr. Who big-baddies in the new series.

It was nice to see Matt one more time, but it ultimately was unnecessary to convince Clara/the audience to like Capaldi. Capaldi's the Doctor, whether you like it or not.
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PostSubject: Re: S8E1: Deep Breath (SPOILERS)   Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:21 pm

I loved the scene in the 'escape pod' with just the Doctor and the 'droid.

After it was over, it seemed a perfect contrast to how 10 and 11 would have had the conversation. 11 with punctuated syllables and spinning like a whirling dervish. 10 with his lower jaw extended, fists on the table and speaking a barely held back rage through his teeth. And now 12... carrying all that the scene needs with such an elegant economy that I needed to watch it again shortly thereafter.
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PostSubject: Re: S8E1: Deep Breath (SPOILERS)   Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:29 pm

I think the phone call is the most interesting new element to be done in a regeneration episode. It's also very Eleventh Doctor to do. Whether it was needed, per se, is another story.

Clara understands regeneration, sure. She's personally met two other Doctors. And some shade/sliver of her has met all the other Doctors, but they're distinctly not her. But the idea is that her Doctor, the man she met and crushed on and flirted with and who pretended to be her boyfriend just an episode ago, is gone. Now he's an old man. He changed his face and he got old - from her perspective he got old AGAIN - when she thought he would be young. It's disconcerting and he's very much a different man than Eleven. Remember that he'll be the first new regeneration of the Doctor to know exactly what happened during the Time War, realizing that the War Doctor and his "bad" actions are as much a part of him as any other.
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PostSubject: Re: S8E1: Deep Breath (SPOILERS)   Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:32 pm

I loved all the references and nods to the past. The ones I caught were:

The scarf comment (4)
The Clockworks/SS Madame du Pompardour (10)
12's reference to seeing his face somewhere before (10)
"I miss Amy" (11)
Clara's "I don't like it" (2/10)
Vastra's "Here we go again" (The Brigadier)
The "round things" in the TARDIS line. (Classic Who)
The Smith cameo

Some new stuff I found interesting:

The accent The Doctor speaks in affects the way he hears everyone else's speech. Nice little throwaway wrinkle.

Again, we have an indication that somehow The Doctor subconsciously chooses his new face. The added bit is that choosing this face implies he's sending himself a message, but one that he can't fathom yet and one that he couldn't just "tell" himself directly.

It seems from this episode that one of 12's new personality quirks is to ponder "the question" out loud. I think he said lines like "That's not the question" or "The question is" 5-6 times. Nice verbal nod to JNT's question marks, perhaps?

All in all, a great episode. Capaldi sure seems like he's got the makings of a great Doctor, and one who can return to the show to it's classic roots somewhat. I've often wondered what Jon Pertwee or Tom Baker would feel like in the modern show with modern writing. I get that feeling from Capaldi, but not so much that it's a direct rip-off either.
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PostSubject: Re: S8E1: Deep Breath (SPOILERS)   Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:41 pm

TinDogRory wrote:
I think the phone call is the most interesting new element to be done in a regeneration episode. It's also very Eleventh Doctor to do. Whether it was needed, per se, is another story.

Clara understands regeneration, sure. She's personally met two other Doctors. And some shade/sliver of her has met all the other Doctors, but they're distinctly not her. But the idea is that her Doctor, the man she met and crushed on and flirted with and who pretended to be her boyfriend just an episode ago, is gone. Now he's an old man. He changed his face and he got old - from her perspective he got old AGAIN - when she thought he would be young. It's disconcerting and he's very much a different man than Eleven. Remember that he'll be the first new regeneration of the Doctor to know exactly what happened during the Time War, realizing that the War Doctor and his "bad" actions are as much a part of him as any other.

In Day of the Doctor, War Doctor wonders why his future incarnations are so young. "Why are you afraid to be grown ups" or something to that effect. As we learn in the course of that episode, the youthfulness of 10 & 11 is his subconscious way of avoiding the guilt of his actions the Time War. The way I see it, now that he knows he didn't kill all his people, he's OK with appearing and acting older again.

As for whether 11's phone call was needed, I say it was. Not for us veteran Whovians, mind you, but rather, all the new fans. I would imagine there is a large percentage of Who fans who only got into the show during Matt's tenure. Those fans aren't as familiar with regeneration, necessarily, and I thought that scene was aimed squarely at them. The casting of a much older actor in the lead is a huge risk, and I doubt Moffat wants to lose any of his audience if he can help it.
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PostSubject: Re: S8E1: Deep Breath (SPOILERS)   Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:31 pm

Rust wrote:

"I'm Scottish? Gooooood....Good! I'm Scottish! I can complain about things!"

Very Happy


THIS!!!

Finally!

 Laughing lol!     Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: S8E1: Deep Breath (SPOILERS)   Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:53 pm

fatsal wrote:

In Day of the Doctor, War Doctor wonders why his future incarnations are so young. "Why are you afraid to be grown ups" or something to that effect. As we learn in the course of that episode, the youthfulness of 10 & 11 is his subconscious way of avoiding the guilt of his actions the Time War. The way I see it, now that he knows he didn't kill all his people, he's OK with appearing and acting older again.

I like this idea. Maybe now the Doctor can stop talking like a child as well.
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PostSubject: Re: S8E1: Deep Breath (SPOILERS)   Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:08 pm

Something about... "Point of being adult if you can't be childish sometimes."
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PostSubject: Re: S8E1: Deep Breath (SPOILERS)   Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:22 pm

I don't see how the scene with the Doctor and the Captain is ambiguous at all.

The Captain states he cannot self-terminate.

The Doctor states he is not a murderer...then goes on to state one of them is lying, to which the Captain agrees.


We're talking about a character who cosigned the Family of Blood to eternal torments and drowned the Rachni newborns while their mother screamed. There is no ambiguity.

The Doctor pushed him.
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PostSubject: Re: S8E1: Deep Breath (SPOILERS)   Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:25 pm

I'm not certain he pushed him. I could see The Doctor convincing the robot to kill itself.
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PostSubject: Re: S8E1: Deep Breath (SPOILERS)   Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:02 pm

That's not much more ethical.
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PostSubject: Re: S8E1: Deep Breath (SPOILERS)   Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:04 pm

No, no it's not.
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PostSubject: Re: S8E1: Deep Breath (SPOILERS)   Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:38 pm

"I've got a horrible feeling I'm going to have to kill you. I thought you might appreciate a drink first...I know I would."
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PostSubject: Re: S8E1: Deep Breath (SPOILERS)   Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:54 pm

fatsal wrote:

12's reference to seeing his face somewhere before (10)

I LOVED this line. I think it ties in great to The Fire of Pompey and even a bit to the Curator saying the Doctor would be revisiting a few favorite faces in his future.
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PostSubject: Re: S8E1: Deep Breath (SPOILERS)   Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:22 pm

Bloated and dreary. I feel sorry for any "civilians" who decided to tune in to see what all the Who hype was about. They might write the series off after this episode. This is easily the least user-friendly first episode for any of the modern Doctors. That may not bother us since we've already got the habit, but I don't know if Moff & Co. could have made it any more difficult for new viewers to get hooked.

The first half-hour was a drag. With the Doctor not quite the Doctor yet, the episode was left in the hands of Clara and the Scooby gang, and honestly, aside from Clara's big eyes and the occasional one-liner from Strax, they aren't that interesting. Nor, thanks to overuse, is the Victorian era. Even plopping a dinosaur into the middle of it doesn't help. I found the episode to be a dud until the Doctor got right.

Once the Doctor and Clara got to the restaurant, the story was serviceable. The clockwork droids made for decent monsters. Capaldi's performance was worth watching, though he hasn't bowled me over yet. I do like how he seems to be going for a more intense and controlled Doctor. However, I was surprised how glad I was to see Smith near the end. Does he represent "the good old days" already?

About that phone call...it was a cool moment, but did the Moff really think he needed Smith to put Capaldi over with the fangirls/boys? Clara might be getting a few more phone calls this season. And her discomfort with the Doctor looking older seemed forced. She's seen 'em all, for crying out loud. He's not the worst looker of the bunch! Does he look older than John Hurt? And at least (so far) he's dressing soberly. And he hasn't attempted to strangle her yet.

I'm putting the Missy thing in spoilers so it doesn't blow your minds (or cause hysterical laughter).
Spoiler:
 

"Deep Breath" gets 5 out of 10 from me. I'm looking forward to the next episode, though. It'll hopefully be free of regeneration baggage and rate higher.
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PostSubject: Re: S8E1: Deep Breath (SPOILERS)   Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:36 pm

On Missy...

Spoiler:
 
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