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 S7E15: The Day of the Doctor [50th Anniversary] (SPOILERS)

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What did you think of S7E15: 'The Day of the Doctor'?
AMAZING!!!!
70%
 70% [ 31 ]
Good!
18%
 18% [ 8 ]
Okay...
9%
 9% [ 4 ]
Really bad!
2%
 2% [ 1 ]
AWFUL!!!!
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 44
 

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Rust
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PostSubject: Re: S7E15: The Day of the Doctor [50th Anniversary] (SPOILERS)   Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:16 pm

Loved.
It.

Kevin's Customs wrote:
I liked to see Tennant again... and it was AWESOME to see Tom... but on the whole the story was wanting. First of all... another doctor John Hurt... Rose would have made a LOT more sense if it were Eccelston but it really bothers me that Moffett did not ask McGann to do this when Ecceslston turned the part down.
Moffat said that the McGann Doctor could not commit double genocide. Keep in mind, we've had twelve years to get used to the idea that the Doctor could push the Big Red Button, but the Classic Doctors...

Tom Baker hesitated to kill the Daleks in their infancy. Can you really assign McGann the burden of burning away not just Daleks, but Time Lords as well? Anyone who says "yes" doesn't get the Doctor.

Quote :
Secondly there was no time-lock... REALLY!?!?! Does that mean that the End of Time was rewritten ie Never Happened?!?!
No, the Time Lock is still in place. Bad Wolf Rose (I CALLED IT) gave Ten and Eleven access and urged them both to come.

Quote :

Didn't Rassilon want to Destroy everything?
Yes, the High Council is firmly on the opinion of "Blow It All Up!". The Military, it seems, is much saner in that regard.

With Gallifrey in stasis (Assuming someone hasn't...let them out), all the stuff with The End of Time still has to be sorted out. My theory? The Master cutting loose in the High Council Chamber is going to cause enough confusion for the Military to come in and secure the scene - including taking away the Big Red Time Ending Button from Rassilion. Assuming The Master hasn't turned him into a snack, that is.
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Ronpur
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PostSubject: Re: S7E15: The Day of the Doctor [50th Anniversary] (SPOILERS)   Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:18 pm

Shatterbang wrote:
Ronpur wrote:
jaredofmo wrote:
I do think that if Eccleston had said he'd return, we'd have had none of Hurt. He made a brilliant Doctor, but it seems that he might now be the Doctor with the shortest "life?"
I really don't see that.  To have the story be about the Doctor's healing and his coming to grips with his using The Moment, we need Hurt.  A "Doctor" that so violated what the Doctor means, he has forgotten him, sort of like Jackson Lake forgetting the horror that happened to him.  Eccelston would not have worked in that part.  It is implied in Rose that he has just regenerated when he sees himself in the mirror.  I also do not like the idea of using 8 in the position of Hurt, because then, the Doctor would try to forget his incarnation as well.
But the only reason it was written in that he had to 'forget' an incarnation was due to the refusal of Eccleston to participate.

Really, they should've just gone with McGann.
Correct. If Chris had said yes, I just don't think the story would have been this one. I see no way that 9 could have just slotted into Hurt's spot. Or had McGann work for this story either. If we had 9, 10 and 11 in the story, with Hurt, the theme of the Doctor's healing could have been retained, but 4 Doctors maybe a bit too many.
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Ronpur
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PostSubject: Re: S7E15: The Day of the Doctor [50th Anniversary] (SPOILERS)   Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:22 pm


Rust wrote:

Yes, the High Council is firmly on the opinion of "Blow It All Up!". The Military, it seems, is much saner in that regard.

With Gallifrey in stasis (Assuming someone hasn't...let them out), all the stuff with The End of Time still has to be sorted out. My theory? The Master cutting loose in the High Council Chamber is going to cause enough confusion for the Military to come in and secure the scene - including taking away the Big Red Time Ending Button from Rassilion. Assuming The Master hasn't turned him into a snack, that is.
Agreed with you on the military. I see the War Council staging a coop! And I love the idea of The Master being involved in the future. That would be fun and ironic...The master saves Gallifrey after the Doctor un freezes it from stasis!
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PostSubject: Re: S7E15: The Day of the Doctor [50th Anniversary] (SPOILERS)   Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:25 pm

Ronpur wrote:
Correct.  If Chris had said yes, I just don't think the story would have been this one.  I see no way that 9 could have just slotted into Hurt's spot.   Or had McGann work for this story either.  If we had 9, 10 and 11 in the story, with Hurt, the theme of the Doctor's healing could have been retained, but 4 Doctors maybe a bit too many.  
Eccelston said the biggest reason he said no was because he was mostly just a cameo role (Much like Billie Piper was). It still didn't feel right without him, but I did like Hurt's comment about the ears. Laughing 
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Ronpur
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PostSubject: Re: S7E15: The Day of the Doctor [50th Anniversary] (SPOILERS)   Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:34 pm

Rust wrote:
Ronpur wrote:
Correct.  If Chris had said yes, I just don't think the story would have been this one.  I see no way that 9 could have just slotted into Hurt's spot.   Or had McGann work for this story either.  If we had 9, 10 and 11 in the story, with Hurt, the theme of the Doctor's healing could have been retained, but 4 Doctors maybe a bit too many.  
Eccelston said the biggest reason he said no was because he was mostly just a cameo role (Much like Billie Piper was). It still didn't feel right without him, but I did like Hurt's comment about the ears. Laughing 
Cameo would most likely have been the regeneration scene. Hurt must have been there from the beginning. Can't wait to read more about the story creation and production.

Beyond all of this, what else did we love? Opening credits with the policeman, Totter's Lane sign. Clara working as a teacher at Coal Hill? I wish we had seen Ian as the Headmaster! And Clara was rather Ace-like in her leather jacket and motorcycle!

And the shots of the Time War reaching Gallifrey. Are all of these civilians not TimeLords? Gallifrey Military, and not Chancellery Guards!
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PostSubject: Re: S7E15: The Day of the Doctor [50th Anniversary] (SPOILERS)   Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:38 pm

True story: Watching the Fall of Arcadia, all I could think of was "All these Gallifrey props and costumes...I wish they'd bring them back."

And by the end of the special...I got my wish!
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PostSubject: Re: S7E15: The Day of the Doctor [50th Anniversary] (SPOILERS)   Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:53 pm

Did you watch Last Day? The soldiers in Arcadia in the OP looking out for birds in the Sky Trenches?
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PostSubject: Re: S7E15: The Day of the Doctor [50th Anniversary] (SPOILERS)   Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:34 am

Well, for all intents and purposes Gallifrey is still "destroyed" at the End of the Time War. The fundamental facts don't change, just our understanding. It does mean a rogue Rassilon will be there if/when the Doctor finds the planet.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E15: The Day of the Doctor [50th Anniversary] (SPOILERS)   Sun Nov 24, 2013 2:32 am

I think Moffat did a really good job at solving our general issues about it. Mainly the incarnation count. He even solved some of the issues from the episode. Like TinDogRory said its still the same outcome we just see it differently. Also 'The End of Time' still happened. It was before this in that world. This was right when the doctor was destroying Gallifrey. That took place before that.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E15: The Day of the Doctor [50th Anniversary] (SPOILERS)   Sun Nov 24, 2013 2:52 am

The one thing that confused me, then, was that I guess in The End of Time Gallifrey (in the new continuity caused by this episode) was still pulled into our world, and the Master still ended up on it. It's just that they were pulled back into the bubble, not the time lock?
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PostSubject: Re: S7E15: The Day of the Doctor [50th Anniversary] (SPOILERS)   Sun Nov 24, 2013 3:43 am

One should take the plot(s) as is.
* The End of Time was the event before The Day of the Doctor. The Military/Security
  Consul head said that the "High Consul" had failed. As far as 10 was concern (& the Ood), Gallifrey
  was behind a Time Lock. Hence, "Something returns". Relative to us, the High Consul wanted to
  become "pure conscious" by ramming Gallifrey into the Earth.  In other words, there was no Time
  Lock nor stasis field during the End of Time episode. They just needed a link because they
  could not get pass the blockade.
* If you change your perspective from the NOW (11's Time Line) to the BAD WOLF's perspective  
  then this episode makes sense. We really do not know if all of "Galifreys History"  
  was "Time Locked/In Stasis" or just the Time War. There were no
 references to any thing that could have suggested that
 Gallifrey was "Lost Since the Beginning of Time". As far as we are concern, there was no
plot device or desire to "visit past Gallifrey".
* There NEVER WAS A TIME LOCK. Gallifrey was placed in stasis
 (Gallifrey Art). In other words, the Matrix(s) [Bad Wolf] opened a timmey, winney
worm hole and adjusted "reality" such that the Doctors can coexist. The Doctors DID NOT change history.
 I do not think Bad Wolf would have allowed history to change. After all, the Matrix can archive the "Desk Top" before it is created.


Last edited by KIRKESS on Sun Nov 24, 2013 4:27 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: S7E15: The Day of the Doctor [50th Anniversary] (SPOILERS)   Sun Nov 24, 2013 4:09 am

So, from 10's perspective, this takes place after DoctorDonna, just before End of Time. So Gallifrey gets sent back at the end of that ep, NOT into a time lock, but into a pocket dimension where they're all in stasis. THEN, because 11 remembers what happened, he has another chance to stop Rassilon and contain the Master, but he FIRST must find said pocked dimension.

There WAS a time lock, but it was breached twice. First by the Moment, trying to dissuade the Doctor from hitting the red button. Then the Time Lords, reacting when they realized that the Doctor had stolen the Moment, set up the sound of drums in the Master's head, to try and escape their fate.

10 had already helped save Gallifrey, but forgot about it due to timey wimey stuff. So he thought he was sending Rassilon etc. back to the moment before the Moment was activated, when in reality, they are all still alive and in stasis.

Am I even close to having an understanding of this?
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PostSubject: Re: S7E15: The Day of the Doctor [50th Anniversary] (SPOILERS)   Sun Nov 24, 2013 4:59 am

We really do not know when the Time War happened. Was it in our past, now or in our future? We do not know how much of Time Lord history was "Locked Away". As far as we are concern the battle that was taking place during the End of Time was never locked (made into fine art) because we do not know what is the "time extent" of the Moment or how much time is a slice. We do know that there were two Doctors that was referenced in the End of Time, the one that had stolen the Moment ("... he still holds the moment....") and the one that the prophecy had mentioned (the Seer).

As I stated, if we just accept the plot as is, then every event before stasis field activation was never effected. 9, 10 and 11 just thought it was. In other words, if the was a desire to have a Gallifrey adventure then one of the Doctors could have travel to a point in time such that the war was still raging. That would have been a "surprise" because they thought it was Time Locked.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E15: The Day of the Doctor [50th Anniversary] (SPOILERS)   Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:57 am

I cried. With the 13 TARDISes near the end, I got chills, and then I thought it was over. I barely had it in check when the goodbyes were said, and then Tom Baker showed up, and that was it. Floodgates opened. Tom was my first Doctor when I was a young child, and to see that kind of respect, him walking up just like no time at all had passed, despite his age. Stealing scenes like it was still 1976, summed up what Who is to me. What a beautiful, perfect moment for Who fans. And the closing speech, with all the Doctors.

It made me think back to all the times I have gotten stares and confusion from people, who couldn't understand my lifelong interest in Who and sci-fi in general. Like a validation, that the rest of the world had finally discovered that joy I felt at age 4 watching Baker and Sarah Jane on PBS on a sunday morning after church. And THAT was what the 50th meant to me. At the convention I went to, I saw many younger versions of myself, sonics in hand, chasing imaginary Daleks and Weeping Angels.

Sorry to wax poetic, but this was really alot more of an emotional experience than I was prepared for. To have something that I love and cherish embraced by so many people worldwide really makes me feel like part of a global family. I know that's cliched, and more than a little corny, but f$% you if you don't like it, cause it's the 50th, and Doctor Who is all about the feels.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E15: The Day of the Doctor [50th Anniversary] (SPOILERS)   Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:46 am

jaredofmo wrote:
IRONMAC wrote:
Well I loved it and my John hurt custom will now be taking a rightful place on my display between McCain and Eccelson figures
Why did you make a custom of a US Republican senator?
I don't follow you ????
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PostSubject: Re: S7E15: The Day of the Doctor [50th Anniversary] (SPOILERS)   Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:39 am

That was AMAZING!

Mind = THOROUGHLY BLOWN!! It was an absolutely perfect tribute to the whole 50 years of the show! Just... Wow... Flawless! And it was great to see it in 3D at the cinema, too! Absolutely amazing experience that I will never forget!!

It would have been great to have McGann or Eccleston back, but honestly I'm actually glad that neither of them did take this role in the story. We have gained something very special from their absence: a new incarnation of the Doctor to add to the line-up and a fantastic story.

I'm with Ronpur and Rust in that I don't think it could have worked any other way. It was always against McGann's character to be the 'War Doctor' since he was the most loving and gentle of the Doc's incarnations, and as for Eccey he'd only just regenerated before 'Rose'. That means that if it hadn't been Hurt, it would have HAD to be McGann and I think that would have totally been against the character of McGann's loving Doctor to be the one who purged Gallifrey and Skaro and fought on the front line of the biggest and bloodiest war ever.

Of course, we could have had a completely different story to accommodate either McGann or Eccleston (or even both!) but then we wouldn't have had THIS story... And frankly, I wouldn't swap this story for the world - not even for McGann or Eccleston. Truly, in their absence we have certainly gained a very good story and a very interesting other incarnation.

Anyway, fantastic episode! 10/10! Here's my full thoughts and commentary:



Very Happy

IRONMAC wrote:
jaredofmo wrote:
IRONMAC wrote:
Well I loved it and my John hurt custom will now be taking a rightful place on my display between McCain and Eccelson figures
Why did you make a custom of a US Republican senator?
I don't follow you ????
You typed "McCain" instead of "McGann." Razz


Last edited by Scary on Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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Ronpur
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PostSubject: Re: S7E15: The Day of the Doctor [50th Anniversary] (SPOILERS)   Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:47 am

I am feeling a bit depressed today. No more excitement of a 50th Anniversary special coming up. Well, just have to watch it again!!!
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PostSubject: Re: S7E15: The Day of the Doctor [50th Anniversary] (SPOILERS)   Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:20 am

I need to watch it again because certain people were discussing the plot WHILE WE WERE WATCHING IT. And Doctor Who's sound design is a bit soft.

Anyhoo, for those confused about 10's timeline since he seemingly helped save Gallifrey, then goes off to the plot of "The End of Time"...

1. The "past" Doctors don't normally remember meeting their other incarnations.
2. He believed he failed.

Also, Moffat is giving us THREE regenerations this year: McGann to Hurt, Hurt to Eccleston (there's a subtle morph, GIF below), and next month, Smith to Capaldi. Unless he flips the script on us again.



Also, has he just been giving Big Finish tons of open doors to do 11th Doctor audio adventures and create brand new companions? The show comes back from a break and the Doctor reunites with his companion or even drops her (or him and her) off at home between episodes.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E15: The Day of the Doctor [50th Anniversary] (SPOILERS)   Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:58 am

Did anyone else get texts from new Who fans asking who the old guy at the end was?

I felt like screaming.

Actually, I did scream and texted back TOM FREAKING BAKER!!

She is getting Terror of the Zygons for Christmas.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E15: The Day of the Doctor [50th Anniversary] (SPOILERS)   Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:38 am

Speaking of Big Finish I would love to see big finish pick up the stories of the one hearted 10th Doctor and Rose Tyler.

But also you are right about the 11th Doctor... how cool would Craig 11 stories be
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PostSubject: Re: S7E15: The Day of the Doctor [50th Anniversary] (SPOILERS)   Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:06 pm

IRONMAC wrote:
jaredofmo wrote:
IRONMAC wrote:
Well I loved it and my John hurt custom will now be taking a rightful place on my display between McCain and Eccelson figures
Why did you make a custom of a US Republican senator?
I don't follow you ????
 
 
Paul McGann was the 8th Doctor.  John McCain was a Republican Senator from Arizona. Razz 
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PostSubject: Re: S7E15: The Day of the Doctor [50th Anniversary] (SPOILERS)   Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:25 pm

Yeah, everyone but 11 (and I guess 12!) forget the events of Day of the Doctor otherwise Hartnell would have put a stop to it years ago. ;-)

I have to say, I thought John Hurt was absolutely likable as the War Doctor. I saw a few people even saying "The War Doctor is my Doctor." And the nod to Hartnell's regeneration, "Worn thin." Oh, I loved it. This was fantastic. I'm holding off watching it again as I'm going to do a 3D cinema viewing tomorrow. And then it will be rewatches ad infinitum until Christmas!
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PostSubject: Re: S7E15: The Day of the Doctor [50th Anniversary] (SPOILERS)   Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:28 pm

I need to think about WHAT IF Hurt was not in it at all, and they did use Eccleston (not at all):

McGann regenerated during the Time War (say against The Nightmare Child). Full of anger and fury, he steals the device, meets "Rose" for the first time (hence confirming by asking her when he meets the real her later), and blows up Gallifrey.

THEN, the event happens, 9th wondering what's he doing with a "a dandy and a clown", and so forth.

There is the possibility was there, not having John Hurt at all, not the 4 of them though.

I have to get to work now, but I'll be thinking about it for some short story....
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PostSubject: Re: S7E15: The Day of the Doctor [50th Anniversary] (SPOILERS)   Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:55 pm

IRONMAC wrote:
Well I loved it and my John hurt custom will now be taking a rightful place on my display between McCain and Eccelson figures
I agree, Senator John McCain would have made an awesome Doctor!  Wait, is that right?


But other than picking on a typo, the actual episode was great even if it didn't make perfect sense. Not sure if there ever will be any explanation as to how both "The End of Time" and "Day of the Doctor" can coexist. Much like the request to UNIT to get the file "from the seventies or eighties depending on the dating" that got slipped in last night.

I think I may go out to the local theater Monday night to watch this one again.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E15: The Day of the Doctor [50th Anniversary] (SPOILERS)   Sun Nov 24, 2013 3:08 pm

They're about to repeat the episode now on BBC3, and also the Afterparty straight after. It'll be my third viewing! Very Happy
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