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 Who is John Hurt (SPOILERS)

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Ronpur
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PostSubject: Who is John Hurt (SPOILERS)   Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:38 am

As I mentioned in another thread, there is speculation that the character being played by John Hurt could be the Doctor #9 based on his costume.



A 9th Doctor Jacket and a vest that looks like 8's. Speculation is, he is a forgotten incarnation of the Doctor from the Time War.

I like the idea he is with the Zygons who have just combined versions of the Doctor.
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PostSubject: Re: Who is John Hurt (SPOILERS)   Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:53 am

I like the combined versions of the Doctor idea as well. Seems like any time there's a big Doctor Who story coming, they expect we'll see the Doctor fight in the Time War. (I remember people asking if Matt Smith was actually just playing a young 9th Doctor fighting in the Time War in the lead up to The End of Time.)
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PostSubject: Re: Who is John Hurt (SPOILERS)   Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:54 am

Professor Travers
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PostSubject: Re: Who is John Hurt (SPOILERS)   Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:22 pm

Whoosier Whovian wrote:
Professor Travers

Oh.........that be wild!
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PostSubject: Re: Who is John Hurt (SPOILERS)   Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:37 pm

Or even his grandchild - Great Intelligence is what has me thinking this
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PostSubject: Re: Who is John Hurt (SPOILERS)   Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:19 pm

That could be a good guess. He has that look about him.
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PostSubject: Re: Who is John Hurt (SPOILERS)   Wed May 08, 2013 10:07 pm

John Hurt spills the beans! Source.
Spoiler:
 
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PostSubject: Re: Who is John Hurt (SPOILERS)   Thu May 09, 2013 1:14 am

I'm not going to put this in spoilers, as it's already a spoilery thread (it's in the title).

Trinity huh? 8, 9 and 10? or 9, 10 and 11? 8 never regenerated? 9 never regenerated? leaves more questions than answers. I'm still wondering why Eccleston didn't want to do it.
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PostSubject: Re: Who is John Hurt (SPOILERS)   Thu May 09, 2013 2:20 am

Interesting!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Who is John Hurt (SPOILERS)   Thu May 09, 2013 2:29 am

Interesting Read!!

Spoiler:
 





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PostSubject: Re: Who is John Hurt (SPOILERS)   Thu May 09, 2013 2:33 am

davro wrote:
Interesting Read!!

Spoiler:
 






biting my tongue, trying not to imagine the storyline that Moffat is trying to create........
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PostSubject: Re: Who is John Hurt (SPOILERS)   Thu May 09, 2013 2:35 am

bret_owen99 wrote:
davro wrote:
Interesting Read!!

Spoiler:
 






biting my tongue, trying not to imagine the storyline that Moffat is trying to create........

That is the 9th Dr's leather Jacket!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Who is John Hurt (SPOILERS)   Thu May 09, 2013 3:30 am

bret_owen99 wrote:
davro wrote:
Interesting Read!!

Spoiler:
 






biting my tongue, trying not to imagine the storyline that Moffat is trying to create........

Alternate Reality Doctor, yes.

Lost 'actual' 9th Doctor...........................................................................................








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PostSubject: Re: Who is John Hurt (SPOILERS)   Thu May 09, 2013 4:23 am

It makes all kinds of sense, though.

Look, we know the Time War was insanity incarnate, with billions dying and being reborn each second "at its heart" due to all the temporal alterations occurring. We know the Time Lords were so threatened that they brought back the Master, instated Rassilon as Lord President of Gallifrey, and possibly even removed the limits on Regeneration.

Colin Baker's Doctor was over 900 years old. Eccelston, Tennant, and Smith (Series 5 and 6, at any rate) are actually younger then Colin Baker's Doctor.

The only reason we "know" Eccelston to be the 9th Doctor is because he came after McGann. The concept that there is a "lost" incarnation during the Time War doesn't really surprise me. This is a war that killed off the universe's higher functioning species as collateral damage, after all.
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PostSubject: Re: Who is John Hurt (SPOILERS)   Thu May 09, 2013 7:28 am

I can't see a problem with a missing incarnation due to the time war
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PostSubject: Re: Who is John Hurt (SPOILERS)   Thu May 09, 2013 8:48 am

I would rather have actually seen McGann, if that's the case.
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PostSubject: Re: Who is John Hurt (SPOILERS)   Thu May 09, 2013 9:34 am

Calixar wrote:
I would rather have actually seen McGann, if that's the case.
Ditto!

But it sounds like this would be Doctor 8 1/2 rather than Doctor 9.
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PostSubject: Re: Who is John Hurt (SPOILERS)   Thu May 09, 2013 11:55 am

jaredofmo wrote:
John Hurt spills the beans! Source.
Spoiler:
 

I don't like the sound of this.
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PostSubject: Re: Who is John Hurt (SPOILERS)   Thu May 09, 2013 12:33 pm

Or maybe he's kind of like the Valeyard.
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PostSubject: Re: Who is John Hurt (SPOILERS)   Thu May 09, 2013 1:45 pm

davro wrote:
bret_owen99 wrote:
davro wrote:
Interesting Read!!

Spoiler:
 






biting my tongue, trying not to imagine the storyline that Moffat is trying to create........

That is the 9th Dr's leather Jacket!!!

Spoiler:
 
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PostSubject: Re: Who is John Hurt (SPOILERS)   Thu May 09, 2013 1:51 pm

D84 wrote:
davro wrote:
bret_owen99 wrote:
davro wrote:
Interesting Read!!

Spoiler:
 






biting my tongue, trying not to imagine the storyline that Moffat is trying to create........

That is the 9th Dr's leather Jacket!!!

Spoiler:
 

Not only that, but every other piece of information they have given us since RTD/even Moffat's reign. The 11th hour, Tennant telling Sarah Jane that he had regenerated half a dozen times since he had seen her last, a picture of 9 wearing 8's clothing (in Rose), the reason 9 was so angry (just being out of the time war), 11 being 11, EVERYTHING ELSE> I know the show is silly, and Sci Fantasy, but I don't think it's too much to ask for some form of decent continuity from the writers. On a show like Red Dwarf, where characters die every episode, or Lister has his appendix removed 3 times, I don't care, because the show is not supposed to be taken that serious. Doctor Who should have some, even small, smidgen of seriousness about it, even if the rest is just fun. If this happens, I just can't take it seriously anymore. I can't. it's almost as bad as "Carrot Juice"
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PostSubject: Re: Who is John Hurt (SPOILERS)   Thu May 09, 2013 5:10 pm

Something I posted elsewhere on this subject:

Speaking solely for myself, I'd find the idea that Hurt is a "Lost" Doctor to be rather brilliant, honestly.

Think about it. In Colin Baker's Revelation of the Daleks he remarks to Perri that he's over 950 years old. In Rose, Chris Eccelston proclaims he's 900.

The Last Great Time War between the Time Lords of Gallifrey and the Dalek Empire of the planet Skaro. A conflict so vast and destructive, the only races that survived it were the ones too "primitive" to be affected by it. Whole civilizations vaporized in seconds, billions dying at the heart of the conflict only to be reborn to die again and time lines constantly shifted and changed. The rise of monstrosities such as the Skaro Degradations, The Nightmare Child, The Horde of Travesties, The Could Have Been King with his army of Meanwhiles and Neverweres...

A conflict that saw the Time Lords not only dredge the Master up from the depths of the Eye of Harmony and restore him, but one in which they felt the need to either awaken or (worse and more likely) alter their own time stream in order to bring Rassilon to power as the Lord President during the conflict.

A war that only saw an end with a Moment...and fire. And one man standing firmly at the heart of it.

Who is to say how many times that man - that brilliant, shining beacon of a man - fell only to rise back up and fall again? One man...one crazy man in a obsolete piece of technology, desperately trying to hold the universe together as everything fell apart around him. A man who tried to save his opponent from the horrors of a worse adversary...presumably to try for peace.

How many times? How many times did that familiar chant greet him in that furnace? How many times did he hear the call, feel the air turn hot around him, and pain flare through his body only to be washed anew?


The Doctor we know is over 1000 years old.
The Doctor we knew was over 1000 years old.

The Doctor we know and The Doctor we used to know...are not the same person. We know Eccelston, Tennant, and Smith as 9, 10, and 11 solely because they are the ones who came after McGann. In a conflict where death and rebirth happen constantly, where the only way to stop it was to destroy everything...why is it so hard to imagine that the Doctor who emerged from the Time War is not entirely the same Doctor who bid San Fransisco adieu at the turn of the 21st Century?
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PostSubject: Re: Who is John Hurt (SPOILERS)   Thu May 09, 2013 6:46 pm

Rust wrote:
Something I posted elsewhere on this subject:

Speaking solely for myself, I'd find the idea that Hurt is a "Lost" Doctor to be rather brilliant, honestly.

Think about it. In Colin Baker's Revelation of the Daleks he remarks to Perri that he's over 950 years old. In Rose, Chris Eccelston proclaims he's 900.

The Last Great Time War between the Time Lords of Gallifrey and the Dalek Empire of the planet Skaro. A conflict so vast and destructive, the only races that survived it were the ones too "primitive" to be affected by it. Whole civilizations vaporized in seconds, billions dying at the heart of the conflict only to be reborn to die again and time lines constantly shifted and changed. The rise of monstrosities such as the Skaro Degradations, The Nightmare Child, The Horde of Travesties, The Could Have Been King with his army of Meanwhiles and Neverweres...

A conflict that saw the Time Lords not only dredge the Master up from the depths of the Eye of Harmony and restore him, but one in which they felt the need to either awaken or (worse and more likely) alter their own time stream in order to bring Rassilon to power as the Lord President during the conflict.

A war that only saw an end with a Moment...and fire. And one man standing firmly at the heart of it.

Who is to say how many times that man - that brilliant, shining beacon of a man - fell only to rise back up and fall again? One man...one crazy man in a obsolete piece of technology, desperately trying to hold the universe together as everything fell apart around him. A man who tried to save his opponent from the horrors of a worse adversary...presumably to try for peace.

How many times? How many times did that familiar chant greet him in that furnace? How many times did he hear the call, feel the air turn hot around him, and pain flare through his body only to be washed anew?


The Doctor we know is over 1000 years old.
The Doctor we knew was over 1000 years old.

The Doctor we know and The Doctor we used to know...are not the same person. We know Eccelston, Tennant, and Smith as 9, 10, and 11 solely because they are the ones who came after McGann. In a conflict where death and rebirth happen constantly, where the only way to stop it was to destroy everything...why is it so hard to imagine that the Doctor who emerged from the Time War is not entirely the same Doctor who bid San Fransisco adieu at the turn of the 21st Century?

For me, it's hard because everything you said, goes against everything I believe. It's your vision, opinion, story, that's fine, I'm not going to knock it. In my version, I don't believe either the Time Lords or the Daleks were being killed and reborn over and over again, that was happening to the lesser races who were affected by the war. Something to that effect was said in the End of Time: This is only the furthest edge of the Time War. But at its heart millions die every second. Lost in bloodlust and insanity. With Time itself resurrecting them to find new ways of dying, over and over again. Again, just my opinion that they were not talking about the Time Lords and the Daleks who were at the edge.

As far as the numbers being wrong, you can take that seriously and go the route you've gone. I can completely see Moffat writing something like that. It would make sense, in a way, and would be an explanation of the two different Series. On the other hand, you could just take the numbers to not mean any great importantance at all. I could be wrong, but I thought they got the numbers confused a couple of times in the old series as well. Not to mention, the Doctor telling Rose Tyler that he's 900 sounds a lot better than 1100 (I know it doesn't seem much, but it may have been like a 45 year old man telling a girl in her 20's he's 35). That could be an explanation. Also, as Moffat has pointed out numerous times, the Doctor lies. Maybe he was lying in the original Series, or the new. When asked how many times he could regenerate, he told Clyde 507. yeah....the Doctor's not good with numbers (or he was being sarcastic).

It just rubs me the wrong way, and as much as I don't want to go off on an Anti Moffat spin, I know I wouldn't be in the minority. I know it would probably split fandom in half, some supporting the decision, others really not happy with this (what could only be called) RETCON.

The episode Rose (and Series1) happened after the Time War, which is why the 9th Doctor was so angry, bitter, and anti-social. It was his story arc of redemption and change. To change that, would be to take all of that away. It's sort of like the end of Blade Runner, not meaning as much if you go by Ridley Scott's meaning (although some fans agree with that).

An alternate Doctor, yes, even a future version (like someone suggested, the Valeyard), but not a Lost Doctor. It just throws too much of a monkey wrench into the continuity and storytelling for my tastes. I know some people will like it, some won't even care, but I know there would be others like me that would be outraged.

It's like watching a movie with a twist ending, and the whole thing was a dream. So you wasted your time investing in story, in characters, only to be slapped in the face by the writer? I don't think so. That's not how I would treat my audience, and that's not how I expect to be treated.
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PostSubject: Re: Who is John Hurt (SPOILERS)   Thu May 09, 2013 7:20 pm

Having survived the traumatic effects of the Time War, and if this Lost Doctor was the one who fought it and not 8, I could really find this fascinating.
I don't see it as messing with past continuity at all. In a story about time travel, continuity is not an issue for me.
And the classic show has plenty of continuity holes in it. Every producer has put his or her spin on the legend of our favorite Time Lord. From the first regeneration, two hearts, the Tardis being alive, UNIT, jelly babies, celery, scarfs, the question mark, the Time War and even his race being Time Lords. None of it was written in a series bible by Verity Lambert in 1963. It has all been added to through out the years. If Steven Moffat wants to add a lost Doctor, or even reveal his name, he can do that and add to the legend of the Doctor as it has grown over the last 50 years.
And the next producer can give him 15 more regenerations if he so chooses. Or give the Daleks legs and the Cybermen noses.
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PostSubject: Re: Who is John Hurt (SPOILERS)   Thu May 09, 2013 7:42 pm

Daleks with legs....... Shocked
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