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 S7E14: The Name of the Doctor (SPOILERS)

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Rate S7E14: The Name of the Doctor
Fantastic!
57%
 57% [ 25 ]
Good
30%
 30% [ 13 ]
Okay...
11%
 11% [ 5 ]
Bad
2%
 2% [ 1 ]
Awful!
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 44
 

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timewarrior
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PostSubject: Re: S7E14: The Name of the Doctor (SPOILERS)   Sun May 19, 2013 12:04 am

wow. that was interesting. . .I think john hurt is supposed to be before the first, is that what they are implying?
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PostSubject: Re: S7E14: The Name of the Doctor (SPOILERS)   Sun May 19, 2013 12:07 am

I don't think so, timewarrior.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E14: The Name of the Doctor (SPOILERS)   Sun May 19, 2013 12:11 am

TinDogRory wrote:
I don't think so, timewarrior.

they better not rewrite the entire history. . .a future incarnation? man this is going to make my head hurt. . .when is the next episode?
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PostSubject: Re: S7E14: The Name of the Doctor (SPOILERS)   Sun May 19, 2013 12:45 am

Rust wrote:
If true, then Boo on the first one.

Spoiler:
 

It was possible that the GI was trying to trick the Doctor into chosing a different TARDIS. Since Clara went in to save the Doctor, she was just trying to get him to make his original TARDIS choice.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E14: The Name of the Doctor (SPOILERS)   Sun May 19, 2013 12:55 am

So, I guess the Doctor's greatest enemy is himself: the person he chooses not to be.

Glad that they didn't spill the Doctor's name. And glad that they didn't kill off Vastra, Jenny and Strax. And we finally got an answer about Clara!

This was probably the best way to have all eleven of the Doctors appear (though I didn't spot 8, 9 or 10).
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PostSubject: Re: S7E14: The Name of the Doctor (SPOILERS)   Sun May 19, 2013 1:28 am

jaredofmo wrote:
So, I guess the Doctor's greatest enemy is himself: the person he chooses not to be.

Glad that they didn't spill the Doctor's name. And glad that they didn't kill off Vastra, Jenny and Strax. And we finally got an answer about Clara!

This was probably the best way to have all eleven of the Doctors appear (though I didn't spot 8, 9 or 10).

I spotted 9. Its when Clara is laying on the floor at the end and they are running by.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E14: The Name of the Doctor (SPOILERS)   Sun May 19, 2013 1:58 am

I hope we will see more of the Time War. I think the Hurt Doctor was the one that seal ed the Time War and allowed Gallifrey to FALLLLLllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll:no:

After all there was this BIGGGGGGGG GAPPPPPPPPPPPPP in our time. confused

The fall of the Eleventh looks like the Doctors death. No big mystery here.

I think the Creepy White Silence dudes also "heard the whispers" and did not want the Doctors time line to be corrupted. After all they are "the Cops on the History Beat".

I also think this is one of those timmey winney things. The Doctor goes parallel to his time line and secretly starts the alliance that built the Pandora so he can be safe from the explosion that ended all of reality. Very Happy

Clara must be an entity the "Silence" could not have foreseen. Again, the Doctor's doing??? Question
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PostSubject: Re: S7E14: The Name of the Doctor (SPOILERS)   Sun May 19, 2013 2:48 am

I voted okay -- but mainly because I didn't absolutely hate the episode (in large part because of Vestra & company; unlike most of y'all I think the episode would have been really tedious without them) and because the ending left me curious to see what happens next. The episode kinda played out like above average fanfiction... and if I think about it, there was really a lot more about the episode that annoyed me than that I enjoyed.

Among those things:

Clara. "I'm the impossible girl. I was born to save the Doctor." UGH. I know they had to continue the thread they started with her, but I am really terribly sick of these super-duper all-important companions.

River. Don't get me wrong, I love me some Alex Kingston -- but what I like most about River Song is that she's energy. The woman DOES stuff, and she looks mad sexy doing it. Here? She stood around and talked, like Hartnell in The Three Doctors when he was inching towards his deathbed. (Are you feeling okay, my darling Alex?) Also, I don't like the tonal shift in how they treated her death. I had problems with the treatment of her passing in the original episode -- because, while she died, it was written as if she was SAVED. Not copied to a hard drive, but legitimately rescued with much fanfare and happy sunny skies. This, admittedly, is the interpretation I would have preferred -- but that's not the interpretation Moffat went with the first time around. So now, instead of maybe giving it a pass because of the established treatment of River's death in the previous episodes, I'm annoyed by the inconsistency.

The Whispermen. Ooh, scary things with no eyes and sharp teeth and suits. The basic template is overused in horror television anyway (I flashed all the way back to Buffy's Gentlemen), and nuWho has had several monsters along these lines. This time, however, Moffat didn't even bother with giving them a legitimate modus operandi or backstory.

The rules. Why the heck should a time traveler visiting his/her own grave cause a problem? Why would that constitute crossing one's timeline "in the biggest way possible?" This from a dude who has actually met past incarnations of himself! And when they actually visited his grave, what happened? Sure, Simian and the Yawnmen showed up, but what were the actual repercussions for the Doctor's presence at his own grave? Nada. Winged demon Langoliers tried to devour everything because Rose stopped Pete from dying, and -- the way the Doctor made it sound, anyway -- this was So. Much. Worse.

(I'm also kinda annoyed that Miss Inquisitive Clara didn't even question it -- I'm sure Moffat could have come up with an acceptable two-sentence explanation for why a time traveler's grave should be off limits to said time traveler. Or maybe Moffat couldn't, because it's completely stupid, and that's why he left it out.)

The Doctor's grave. Did it really need to be "discovered?" It was a big freaking monument on a cemetery planet with a giant leaky dying TARDIS presumably leaving a trail of tasty Time Vortex breadcrumbs for the followin'. Nobody was trying to hide that tomb.

Finally (for this post; I could probably sadly keep going), the classic series references and clips. I know, right? This was supposed to be the thing I loved most about the episode! And I did squee a bit upon seeing Hartnell at the very beginning. But here's the thing -- and this has bothered me about the classic series references throughout the series -- it was all so painfully superficial. They showed clips of past Doctors, but it was empty fanservice. It didn't add to the story or help to establish anything; it was just kinda there.

It'd be like me, in casual conversation, throwing in a line about that pair of sneakers that you really, really loved when you were eight years old. It doesn't necessarily mean that I knew you when you were eight; it doesn't mean that I know a thing about your upbringing and development; all it means is that I saw a picture of you from when you were eight years old and in that photo you had those sneakers on your feet. And, okay -- at first -- you might think it's really cool that I knew that about you. But if I keep on mentioning it, and I never add anything more substantive, it'll become more and more clear to you that there's no weight to the observation: maybe you even begin to suspect that I know nothing important about you and your love affair with yesteryear's footwear and only discovered that photo of you in your sneakers yesterday. And, insofar as you really did love those sneakers -- as I really do love classic Who -- you might start to find my references more annoying and even insulting than delightful and inspirative.

Anxious (in the several senses of the word) to see what the deal is with John Hurt's Doctor, though.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E14: The Name of the Doctor (SPOILERS)   Sun May 19, 2013 5:03 am

The rumor is that John Hurt is Doctor 8.5 or the real ninth incarnation. I know Eccleston refused to return, but I don't know why they didn't ask Paul McGann back as the Eighth. I'm wondering if the Tim War went on for so long that McGann had aged into Hurt by the time he ended it? Retconning an extra regeneration is really awkward.
Another possibility is that he's the pre-Hartnell Doctor before he assumed the name Doctor & decided to be helpful (Doctor Zero?). He could also be the Valleyard, the evil 12.5(ish?) regeneration from Trial of a Timelord, since we don't know whether future incarnations also fought in the Time War. Or maybe he's supposed to be a version of the human Doctor Who played by Peter Cushing from the movies who's become in-continuity?
The problem with this, like previous Moffat finales, is that the problem & the resolution become too abstract. The stakes become impossibly big but then they're deflated without much fanfare. You can really call it a deus ex machina because we don't even understand the conflict in the first place. At least the last too finales had more frenetic pacing to build a sense of danger while this was a lot of of exposition whilst waiting for things to happen.
What happened to the Silence? Weren't they a big thing last year & involved in Trenzalore? Did the GI make the TARDIS explode?
Strax is comedy gold!
I was sad when Jenny died, but also disappointed when she was revived.
The time scar in the Doctor's tomb doesn't really make sense as to why it would exist. How did the dead TARDIS hear the psychic ghost of River say the Doctor's true name for it to open? Why'd the Doctor need to jump into his own time scar, which he said is the worst thing possible, to save Clara instead of just meeting up with the next Clara clon it pops out?
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PostSubject: Re: S7E14: The Name of the Doctor (SPOILERS)   Sun May 19, 2013 8:17 am

OK, on another viewing, I spotted 10 and 8. 10 was standing on a balcony when Clara was looking out at a city scape. And you see 8's jacket and collar run by her just before 2 goes running by her, in the same palm tree landscape......now we know 2 and 8 had an adventure together if they were at the same place!


Last edited by Ronpur on Sun May 19, 2013 5:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: S7E14: The Name of the Doctor (SPOILERS)   Sun May 19, 2013 11:22 am

It was the library 10 was looking out at, when we see him with Clara.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E14: The Name of the Doctor (SPOILERS)   Sun May 19, 2013 11:54 am

I don't really think Clara was the "all-important companion" again here. She realized she needed to help the Doctor and she did it. Anyone else that the Doctor could have had with him could have done it.

But, in a classic Moffat paradox, the Doctor had Clara with him, because he'd looked for her, because she'd let herself be scattered through time to defeat the Great Intelligence, and that was why she was there to do it. She was there to do it because she'd done it.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E14: The Name of the Doctor (SPOILERS)   Sun May 19, 2013 11:55 am

jaredofmo wrote:
I don't really think Clara was the "all-important companion" again here. She realized she needed to help the Doctor and she did it. Anyone else that the Doctor could have had with him could have done it.

But, in a classic Moffat paradox, the Doctor had Clara with him, because he'd looked for her, because she'd let herself be scattered through time to defeat the Great Intelligence, and that was why she was there to do it. She was there to do it because she'd done it.

But wait. . .if she. . .then he. . .then she. . .my brain hurts. . .
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PostSubject: Re: S7E14: The Name of the Doctor (SPOILERS)   Sun May 19, 2013 11:56 am

Just imagine how hilarious Series 7 would be if it had been Strax instead of Clara all the time.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E14: The Name of the Doctor (SPOILERS)   Sun May 19, 2013 1:03 pm

jaredofmo wrote:
Just imagine how hilarious Series 7 would be if it had been Strax instead of Clara all the time.

cheers cheers cheers
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PostSubject: Re: S7E14: The Name of the Doctor (SPOILERS)   Sun May 19, 2013 1:19 pm

I was going to write a review, but Wes Crayon wrote something better than anything I could have come up with. Thank you Wes Crayon!

As far as Clara being the self fulfilling Paradox, I never like those in time travel shows (I'm having a hard time watching Continuum).

Just like everyone else here, I hope that Moffat actually explains the Silence/Silence will fall storyline, but I kind of have a sneaking feeling he won't. It seems to me like he's making it up as he goes along, and ruining the story by changing it every so often, sort of like Rust said, the narrative of the last 3 Series botched by constantly changing it.

One thing I didn't like (yes, you could say I didn't like everything), was the fact that his grave/body was basically just a way to lead into the 50th Anniversary episode. Does every time lord turn into energy, that is then fused with a tardis, creating a time space travel machine? Basically, without that, we wouldn't have the Doctor chasing after Clara, in his own timestream, meeting the Hurt Doctor. So all of the flashbacks, all of the GI time meddline, was just created so that at the end we could have the payoff of the lead into the 50th Anniversary show. Wibbly Wobbly, Timey Wimey indeed.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E14: The Name of the Doctor (SPOILERS)   Sun May 19, 2013 2:26 pm

brilliant fantastic, Geronimo!
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PostSubject: Re: S7E14: The Name of the Doctor (SPOILERS)   Sun May 19, 2013 3:04 pm

Wes Crayon wrote:


The rules. Why the heck should a time traveler visiting his/her own grave cause a problem? Why would that constitute crossing one's timeline "in the biggest way possible?" This from a dude who has actually met past incarnations of himself! And when they actually visited his grave, what happened? Sure, Simian and the Yawnmen showed up, but what were the actual repercussions for the Doctor's presence at his own grave? Nada. Winged demon Langoliers tried to devour everything because Rose stopped Pete from dying, and -- the way the Doctor made it sound, anyway -- this was So. Much. Worse.


Its a paradox. That part is explained.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E14: The Name of the Doctor (SPOILERS)   Sun May 19, 2013 3:52 pm

i was waiting for the alien to pop out of his stomach:)

I think its going to be a battle of Doctor 10:11 vs Hurt.

Anybody catch the Great Intelligence mention the Valeyard

I remember in the Beast below when he was about to kill the star whale he said he would have to change names cause he would not longer be the doctor anymore.

When the 10th dropped off his double and rose, he told rose that the double was the dr when he first met her. So

This must be be the Dr 8.5 like someone suggested earlier

in the words of James T Kirk from Wrath of Khan

MOFFATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

Smile
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PostSubject: Re: S7E14: The Name of the Doctor (SPOILERS)   Sun May 19, 2013 3:54 pm

I don't think that Hurt will become the 9th Doctor. Like he said "The Doctor" is a promise not just a title. Hurt broke that promise so he isn't "the doctor" technically.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E14: The Name of the Doctor (SPOILERS)   Sun May 19, 2013 5:04 pm

bret_owen99 wrote:
Does every time lord turn into energy, that is then fused with a tardis, creating a time space travel machine? Basically, without that, we wouldn't have the Doctor chasing after Clara, in his own timestream, meeting the Hurt Doctor. So all of the flashbacks, all of the GI time meddline, was just created so that at the end we could have the payoff of the lead into the 50th Anniversary show. Wibbly Wobbly, Timey Wimey indeed.

I have thinking that this energy is the energy that would have normally gone into The Matrix on Gallifrey. But, with Gallifrey destroyed, when the Doctor dies, his life time of memories or whatever that was, is stored in his TARDIS, the last bit of Gallifrey remaining in the universe, instead of The Matrix.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E14: The Name of the Doctor (SPOILERS)   Sun May 19, 2013 5:06 pm

retrodude wrote:
It was the library 10 was looking out at, when we see him with Clara.

Of course it was!! At first, I thought it might be New New York, but you are right.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E14: The Name of the Doctor (SPOILERS)   Sun May 19, 2013 5:10 pm

To all those annoyed with Clara being "The Impossible Girl" take solace in the fact she likely dies horribly more often then not. Her appearance in Dragonfire means she likely was in the crowd that was herded into the Nosferatu and then casually murdered. I couldn't identify the other adventures, but I doubt she meets good ends in many of them. Heck, she was in The Library...the place with the flesh eating shadows.

EDIT: Just struck me.

Clara was on Gallifrey when the Doctor stole the TARDIS.
Meaning in at least one incarnation, she was a Gallifreyian (Which would explain how she could read The History of the Time War in Journey).

What if Clara is the mysterious Lady in White from The End of Time?
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PostSubject: Re: S7E14: The Name of the Doctor (SPOILERS)   Sun May 19, 2013 5:39 pm

So, do you realize that until the 50th anniversary special, we can call the guy at the end the Hurt Doctor?

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PostSubject: Re: S7E14: The Name of the Doctor (SPOILERS)   Sun May 19, 2013 8:31 pm

Rocco wrote:
Wes Crayon wrote:


The rules. Why the heck should a time traveler visiting his/her own grave cause a problem? Why would that constitute crossing one's timeline "in the biggest way possible?" This from a dude who has actually met past incarnations of himself! And when they actually visited his grave, what happened? Sure, Simian and the Yawnmen showed up, but what were the actual repercussions for the Doctor's presence at his own grave? Nada. Winged demon Langoliers tried to devour everything because Rose stopped Pete from dying, and -- the way the Doctor made it sound, anyway -- this was So. Much. Worse.


Its a paradox. That part is explained.

I don't like that explanation (I agree with Wes Crayon). Why can't the Doctor save Rory and Amy? It's a paradox. Why can't the Doctor save River Song and return her to her parents? it's a paradox. Why can't the Doctor visit his grave? it's a paradox.

It's a paradox every time, and wibbly wobbly timey wimey, to me (my opinion) is bad writing for a time travel show. It' s like a child playing with his toys, and if you ask why he can't save one he replies "just because".
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