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 S7E5: Angels Take Manhattan (SPOILERS)

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Rate S7E5: The Angels Take Manhattan
FANTASTIC!
40%
 40% [ 17 ]
Good
33%
 33% [ 14 ]
Okay...
19%
 19% [ 8 ]
Bad
5%
 5% [ 2 ]
AWFUL!
5%
 5% [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 43
 

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Indiana_Brian
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PostSubject: Re: S7E5: Angels Take Manhattan (SPOILERS)   Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:22 pm

Chuzzlewit wrote:
Jackknight wrote:
Even if the TARDIS can no longer land in NY in 1938, couldn't the Doctor land in Pennsylvania, New Jersey; etc., hop on a bus and go visit the Ponds? And what's to stop him from landing there in 1950 or 1960 and visit them when they're older?

Honestly the whole he can't visit them ever again thing makes no sense.

Not that I'm complaining. I'm just glad they're gone.


Yes, it could. All Amy and Rory have to do is leave New York. They have to be buried there to not create another more explosive Paradox, as their gravestones are a fixed point, but they could see the Doctor if they wanted. Obviously, River will interact with them, getting the book to Amy to publish. Sounds like they don't want to see the Doctor.

(See my above post).



Another possibility is that the graves are empty. The tombstones could have been placed there to prevent the paradox.
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Indiana_Brian
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PostSubject: Re: S7E5: Angels Take Manhattan (SPOILERS)   Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:26 pm

Quote :
Jackknight wrote:
Even if the TARDIS can no longer land in NY in 1938, couldn't the Doctor land in Pennsylvania, New Jersey; etc., hop on a bus and go visit the Ponds?

No, he can't. According to Amy's afterward she never sees him again, so that can't change.

All these questions have been answered already in this thread.... I would suggest watching the episode again, because all of it makes sense.

Those are just words on a page.  They might have been written in the past to prevent the paradox and then ignored.  Amy reading the lines is just the Doctor hearing Amy's voice in his head and not necessarily the reality of what happened to Rory and Amy.
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Gallifreys Loss
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PostSubject: Re: S7E5: Angels Take Manhattan (SPOILERS)   Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:59 pm

So if someone notices a plot hole...it's actually a mistake. If someone thinks there were hints or clues in this episode...they're looking into it too much and all the clues in previous episodes were Moffat being clever.

I give up! *throws hands in air, takes opinion and goes home*
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neogeo
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PostSubject: Re: S7E5: Angels Take Manhattan (SPOILERS)   Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:09 pm

There is the possibility that while Amy & Rory can't see 11 again, the door is still open (I'd like to think) for 12 to show up on their doorstep one day asking for a pint of ginger beer. And, of course, for all we know, the Doctor showed up on the Pond-Williamses doorstep the day after Melody's book was published.

And I did let my little niece watch, after her big sister had watched the episode and I asked her, "should I?" She wasn't sure either. She's not an overly emotional person, at least blue emotions, but she was well misty-eyed. My little niece quickly became misty-eyed when old Rory passed on, and was nearly as Niagara Falls as I by the end. I'm a sentimental sap though. Razz
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PostSubject: Re: S7E5: Angels Take Manhattan (SPOILERS)   Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:43 pm

Gallifreys Loss wrote:
So if someone notices a plot hole...it's actually a mistake. If someone thinks there were hints or clues in this episode...they're looking into it too much and all the clues in previous episodes were Moffat being clever.

I give up! *throws hands in air, takes opinion and goes home*

Alright, what other plot hole was there in this episode?

Yeah, clues in previous episodes are clever. Non-clues that have been established as mistakes are simply mistakes.

..and you still haven't told us how this was a rewrite of Blink...
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KIRKESS
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PostSubject: Re: S7E5: Angels Take Manhattan (SPOILERS)   Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:51 pm

We'll see the Ponds again.

There is still the "Blowing Up the Tardis" issue. The last character who wanted to destroy reality was Davros. Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: S7E5: Angels Take Manhattan (SPOILERS)   Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:53 pm

KIRKESS wrote:

There is still the "Blowing Up the Tardis" issue.

Who here thinks that's going to come into play again soon?
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Evil Monkey Pope
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PostSubject: Re: S7E5: Angels Take Manhattan (SPOILERS)   Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:53 pm

They better wrap up that dangler soon. Not addressing it is almost as negligent as the Justice League not putting any effort into stopping The Light's schemes for 5 years.
There seem to be plot holes in this story because viewers don't understand how time travel works unlike the Doctor therefore the rules of what he can't do seem arbitrary.
That comic on the last page is funny because everybody hates NJ except me.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E5: Angels Take Manhattan (SPOILERS)   Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:58 pm

Evil Monkey Pope wrote:
They better wrap up that dangler soon. Not addressing it is almost as negligent as the Justice League not putting any effort into stopping The Light's schemes for 5 years.

You'd expect them to at least reference it once in a while, I hope next year we get that brought up again.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E5: Angels Take Manhattan (SPOILERS)   Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:07 pm

Tom Baker was the Doctor for 7 seasons. I hope we do not have to wait that long. We will see the "Blowing up the Tardis" resolve when Smith decides to "pass the baton". My opinion, no proof. Sleep

This episode was ok but I never did like "timey, whinny". I hope the rest of the season goes in the "excellent" vote.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E5: Angels Take Manhattan (SPOILERS)   Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:16 am

After watching this again, and just accepting everything, I came to a conclusion. This should have been called Amy's Choice. For someone who had always chosen the Doctor,and wanted the life of adventure over her wedding.....she chose the love of her life, Rory and left the adventure behind. Nice, real nice. Great choice Amy. You have grown so much!
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The 2nd Doctor Roberts
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PostSubject: Re: S7E5: Angels Take Manhattan (SPOILERS)   Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:53 am

Quote :
Gallifreys Loss wrote:
So if someone notices a plot hole...it's actually a mistake. If someone thinks there were hints or clues in this episode...they're looking into it too much and all the clues in previous episodes were Moffat being clever.

I give up! *throws hands in air, takes opinion and goes home*

Alright, what other plot hole was there in this episode?



The Detroit Lions have never won the Super Bowl. They've never even been in the Super Bowl. (Or the "Superbowl" as the New York Record would have it.)

Don't go saying this was a gag or a "mistake"...it's either a plot hole or a Moffat clue. I'm choosing to see it as the "Bad Wolf" of 2013. Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: S7E5: Angels Take Manhattan (SPOILERS)   Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:57 am

The 2nd Doctor Roberts wrote:

The Detroit Lions have never won the Super Bowl. They've never even been in the Super Bowl. (Or the "Superbowl" as the New York Record would have it.)

Don't go saying this was a gag or a "mistake"...it's either a plot hole or a Moffat clue. I'm choosing to see it as the "Bad Wolf" of 2013. Twisted Evil


Heh, That's not what I find wrong in that scene...the issue with that scene (known since filming) is that it indicates it must be early February-ish, and looking around them it most certainly is not. Still, none of these minor details affect the outcome of the episode. It's just a prop.
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The 2nd Doctor Roberts
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PostSubject: Re: S7E5: Angels Take Manhattan (SPOILERS)   Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:14 am

Just a prop? So were all those "Vote Saxon" posters. Wink






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PostSubject: Re: S7E5: Angels Take Manhattan (SPOILERS)   Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:18 am

Indiana_Brian wrote:


Another possibility is that the graves are empty. The tombstones could have been placed there to prevent the paradox.

But, Amy's name was not there on the tombstone until she was taken, re-inforcing it was hers. Right?

I like a lot of the fan speculation online that young Melody, AKA River, seen walking around as a child whe she's regenerating for the first time, was found by Amy and Rory in New York, raised by them for a while, then sent to live near and grow up with their pre-Doctor selves. That's neat. I wonder if Moffat has ever hinted at that and I missed it, or if he will.

I also like what some fans are saying about Nixon helping the Ponds. That, I believe, is totally fans creating that idea, but it's cool.

I am waiting for Captain Jack to meet the Ponds, maybe in fan fiction.

I remember when I saw the gravestones that I thought they went back to 1963, the year Doctor Who premiered. Fandom seems to be running with that as a "fact", but was the year actually stated? Or, did a lot of us, knowing how Moffat thinks, simply assume that?

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PostSubject: Re: S7E5: Angels Take Manhattan (SPOILERS)   Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:20 am



Don't blink...........or pay any attention to the 111ft 6in Statue walking amongst you! Nothing to see here.......move along.......go about your business.....Wink
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PostSubject: Re: S7E5: Angels Take Manhattan (SPOILERS)   Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:21 am

KIRKESS wrote:
We'll see the Ponds again.

There is still the "Blowing Up the Tardis" issue. The last character who wanted to destroy reality was Davros. Twisted Evil

I am still looking forward to when they explain how River arrived at Amy's wedding. I bet it will be in one of River's final episodes.

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PostSubject: Re: S7E5: Angels Take Manhattan (SPOILERS)   Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:26 am



Another neat fan thing making it around...

http://www.quiteunlikely.net/starlitblue/amyjwilliams.png

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PostSubject: Re: S7E5: Angels Take Manhattan (SPOILERS)   Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:56 pm

Indiana_Brian wrote:
Chuzzlewit wrote:
Jackknight wrote:
Even if the TARDIS can no longer land in NY in 1938, couldn't the Doctor land in Pennsylvania, New Jersey; etc., hop on a bus and go visit the Ponds? And what's to stop him from landing there in 1950 or 1960 and visit them when they're older?

Honestly the whole he can't visit them ever again thing makes no sense.

Not that I'm complaining. I'm just glad they're gone.


Yes, it could. All Amy and Rory have to do is leave New York. They have to be buried there to not create another more explosive Paradox, as their gravestones are a fixed point, but they could see the Doctor if they wanted. Obviously, River will interact with them, getting the book to Amy to publish. Sounds like they don't want to see the Doctor.

(See my above post).



Another possibility is that the graves are empty. The tombstones could have been placed there to prevent the paradox.
I agree! Dig up the graves, dig up the graves!! clown

Its the only way to be sure. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: S7E5: Angels Take Manhattan (SPOILERS)   Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:52 pm

Just Scott wrote:


Don't blink...........or pay any attention to the 111ft 6in Statue walking amongst you! Nothing to see here.......move along.......go about your business.....Wink

Why, when I read that, do I hear Graham Chapman's voice? I just took it as a classic example of Adams's SEP (Someone Else's Problem).
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PostSubject: Re: S7E5: Angels Take Manhattan (SPOILERS)   Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:20 pm

When I saw the Statue of Liberty, my first thought was Ghostbusters II........
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PostSubject: Re: S7E5: Angels Take Manhattan (SPOILERS)   Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:16 pm

Yeah, didn't they know all they had to do was play "Lifting Me Higher" and the SoL would have switched sides?
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PostSubject: Re: S7E5: Angels Take Manhattan (SPOILERS)   Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:16 pm

That Amy obituary is really cool.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E5: Angels Take Manhattan (SPOILERS)   Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:43 pm

One thing that kind of bugged me about this episode was the whole Rory being sent back in time. He waited two thousand years for Amy and doesn't age a day but then gets sent back what eighty years and when Amy and the Doctor find him he is on his death bed?? Isn't he still an Auton?

Couldn't they have just waited for him and be like oops Rory got sent back in time again lets sit here and oh here he comes now.

I know I need to watch the episode again but when they were talking about not being able to go to New York because creating a Paradox and destroying the Earth how was the Doctor and Martha able to go there in 1930-31ish in Daleks in Manhattan?
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PostSubject: Re: S7E5: Angels Take Manhattan (SPOILERS)   Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:47 pm

Rory isn't an Auton any more, not after the reset that happened at the end of Series 5. He still sort of remembers it, but he's not physically an Auton.


Last edited by jonwes on Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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