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Calixar
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness Discussion   Sat May 25, 2013 10:20 pm

My son and I saw it in 3D today... I don't think the extra dimension added much to it, but I loved the film. I enjoyed the references to WoK.

I must agree, though, that the lens flare were distracting. Could do without that.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness Discussion   Sun May 26, 2013 8:04 pm

I'd like to get a pair of the 3D glasses they had for the showing.
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Ted47
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness Discussion   Tue May 28, 2013 6:27 pm

Cool plastic model kit. Even though I'm not a fan of the new movie design, I
find this kit tempting. But, it's not available in the US, yet!

http://culttvman.com/main/?p=29933
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Ronpur
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness Discussion   Tue May 28, 2013 7:42 pm

Ted47 wrote:
Cool plastic model kit. Even though I'm not a fan of the new movie design, I
find this kit tempting. But, it's not available in the US, yet!

http://culttvman.com/main/?p=29933

Oh boy! I knew this was coming but did not realize it would be so BIG!!
After building my TOS Enterprise, these big ships are gonna be hard to display.
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Evil Monkey Pope
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness Discussion   Tue May 28, 2013 9:51 pm

I lost interest in seeing this after it was spoiled that Cumberbatch was playing the iconic Trek villain everyone guessed he was playing before the part was even cast. I approve of all the rare iconic ethnic villains being whitewashed in genre movies. On top of that I heard it was just a dumbed down version of the only Trek movie I really like. I liked the 09 reboot but I'm seriously disinterested in this being a greatest hits retread rather than them boldly exploring new aspects of the franchise. I say this as someone who's not even a hardcore Trekkie.
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Ronpur
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness Discussion   Wed May 29, 2013 7:35 am

Well, as someone who is a hardcore Trekkie who has been to conventions in uniform, built models and made tribbles, I loved it. It has now replaced Wrath of Khan as my favorite movie. It is very different from WOK, except for a certain iconic scene. It completely changes the story of Khan and how he is found, etc. Chris Pine really stepped up his acting this time, as his Kirk takes a step to grow up. And it is a non stop action movie. I don't fall asleep in this like I do Star Trek: The Motion Picture!! Frankly, I never understand how anyone can "lost interest" with out actually seeing the movie. I would rather hate a movie after I have seen it.....like Twilight. At least then, I can avoid going to the sequels with my girlfriend. But, I have gone to many movies I had no interest in seeing, and actually enjoyed quite a few. I never listen to critics or what the IMDB message boards say!
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness Discussion   Wed May 29, 2013 8:57 am

Well, you're doing yourself a disservice. I remember thinking how can they re-boot Star Trek with a younger cast etc.? Even going into it with ALL my predjudices, it still won me over. As did the blu-ray version of the old series with upgrades effects. Again I was in disbelief.

Also, the fact that he was Khan was probably the worst kept secret since we knew Kirk was going to die in Generations.

If not in the theater you could at the very least rent it.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness Discussion   Wed May 29, 2013 1:10 pm

I think it's one of those movies that sound awful on paper but works SO well on film. I remember being totally turned off by the basic idea of the first move, but loving it in the theater. I was excited to see this one, and even though there were a few problems, I think the actual film is hugely enjoyable. I guess if I read every nit pick and every criticism BEFORE seeing it, then maybe I wouldn't have enjoyed it as much.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness Discussion   Wed May 29, 2013 1:32 pm

I didn't go see The Dark Knight or The Dark Knight Rises because I'd already seen The Joker, Two-Face, Catwoman, and Bane done in movies.

Oh wait...yes I did, and those movies were fantastic!!

Man of Steel is going to feature Jor-El, the Kents, General Zod, etc. yet again in yet another retelling of Superman.

So what?

Great characters well written and realized are always gonna be great.

Cumberbatch was amazing in this movie. His character's name is irrelevant.

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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness Discussion   Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:40 pm

So the wife and I took in Star Trek: Into Darkness today. I apologize in advance if I've covered other peoples points, but I haven't been following the thread closely as to avoid the majority of spoilers.


From the very opening scene of this movie, it grabs you by the neck and doesn't let you go until the credits are rolling. There are moments when you get to breath, but they're very short sequences and generally are there simply to allow you some time to catch your breath before the roller coaster starts back up again.

Let me just say that ultimately I found this a good Star Trek movie. Star Trek (2009) was a good film, but Into Darkness is probably the first Star Trek movie we've had since The Undiscovered Country. What do I mean by that? I mean this film has meat on its bones beyond the action slugfests we normally have. And while it is buried underneath the action, the film does have a actual narrative to it.

Specifically, it's addressing a long standing issue with the Trek franchise as a whole - Is - and Should - Starfleet be militarized? This is a obvious callback to the dialogue in Star Trek II (as are a lot of things in the film), but it's given more prominence and the weight of the subject isn't merely glossed over.

Admiral Marcus believed war with the Klingon Empire was inevitable, so he and Section 31 took steps to be ready for that war - even if it meant violating every rule on the books to do so. In addition to this, we get two fold growth from both Spock and Kirk. Kirk in the film gets a firsthand and very visceral lesson of what can result when you ignore orders and regulations you don't agree with, and Spock gets growth in his confrontation with Khan in that in some instances, Cold Logic isn't enough.

I really liked the themes and elements of the movie. Khan himself seemed like a side show, the low hanging fruit of the franchise to serve as the antagonist that drives forward the plot and then ultimately the final foil (Though I'd say Admiral Marcus is the film's true menace since everything in the movie was done to cover up the fact Section 31 unthawed Khan). As to Khan, I have to say I'm glad Cumberbatch wasn't forced to emulate Montiban and instead allowed to do Khan in his own way. It really helped the story that Khan wasn't a simple carbon copy. I also liked that he was less an adversary for most of the film and more a unwilling ally. It helps build the eventual conflict all the more, specifically because Kirk was the one who initially betrays Khan when he orders Scotty to drop him. Khan didn't have to save Kirk during the ship jump, after all.

All in all, I am tremendously satisfied with Into Darkness. It's by no means the "Best Trek Movie ever" but it's a triumphant return to the franchise's movie "roots" of being an action movie with more meat on the bones. The fact Cumberbatch's Khan is probably the least Khan-like villain we've had since The Undiscovered Country also helps immensely too.

Some other random bits of the movie I liked:

- The Dress Uniforms. Given the movie's undertone about whether Starfleet was or wasn't a military organization, I loved the new Dress outfits. It gives an air of professionalism that the multi-colored jumpers sorely lacked, while at the same time not being a full on Dress Uniform like a Military would have. They honestly looked like Cops...which is what they are, if Starfleet is ultimately a peacekeeping organization.

- The Admirals Uniforms. They took about the only good looking outfit from Star Trek: The Motion Picture and adapted it. Bravo.

- The Klingons. I was bracing myself for this, and almost immediately I desperately wanted to see more of them. I love everything about them. Their merging of TOS and TNG styling, the Helmets (Which also saves the extras from being forced into 2+ hour makeup sessions simply to be on screen for thirty seconds). The new forehead ridges, the redesigned Bat'leths, the atmospheric Birds of Prey (Which looked like ungainly lumps of nothing in stills but are amazing in motion)...More! More! More! More! MORE!

- The violation of the Prime Directive. I know this scene caused some stink because the Enterprise is under water (Which is a tad odd. Even if they can't use transporters due to magnetic interference, why send the entire ship down?), but I liked it because it gave us an alien species that had more effort put into it then simply slap a forehead on them. Great use of body paint to give them a dried out, parched skin look.

- Spock and Khan's knuckleduster. Not only is it a culmination of Khan's original comment to Spock about "breaking bones" but logically (heh) Spock is the only one of the main cast that is comparable to Khan in strength. If they were going to have a slobberknocker, Spock was the one to do it.

- Sulu in the Captain's chair. Obvious foreshadowing may be obvious, but it's nice to see the new Trek acknowledge that Sulu has it in him to be a good Captain. "Lieutenant, remind me never to piss you off."

- The "TOS Feel" is still alive and well from the previous movie. It just "feels" right.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness Discussion   Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:58 pm

Nice post, Rust. Lots of good points. I'm actually quite sad that, although doing well, this movie doesn't seem to have connected with the audience as well as I thought it would. It seems like people who go are loving it, but right now it's running about 10m behind the first movie at this time. I hope international numbers (which are stronger) make up for it.

I think it's doing well enough that we're for sure getting more, but I do think Paramount is disappointed, a bit, at this point.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness Discussion   Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:26 pm

I think the factors for the low domestic numbers are two fold:

1) Tickets keep going up in price, meaning more people are simply waiting for it to become available for purchases/rent/On Demand. I strongly suspect Into Darkness is going to do amazingly well in the Home Video market.

2) The Trailers for the movie are terrible. They don't give you a sense of anything about the movie and just come off as generic action movie stock. Give me a trailer of Pike and Kirk getting into a shouting match about how Kirk isn't ready for the chair, give me some shots of Harrison, give me glimpses about what this movie was actually *about* instead of generic Terrorist in Sci-Fi Setting we did get.


Finally, a personal observation: There's honestly no reason this movie should have cost 190 million. While the opening sequence is great and fun, it ultimately served zero purpose. Along with Scotty's trip to Jupiter (Since they weren't going to reveal the Vengeance until later anyway), and the chase scene on Qo'nos.

A lot of fun moments...that ultimately serviced zero purpose to the film and could have been used for other pursuits.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness Discussion   Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:41 am

I am going a second time on tuesday. Also the comic continuation, Star Trek After Darkness, came out this week. It has some interesting ideas, such as

Spoiler:
 
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness Discussion   Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:12 pm

Ronpur wrote:
Well, as someone who is a hardcore Trekkie who has been to conventions in uniform, built models and made tribbles, I loved it. It has now replaced Wrath of Khan as my favorite movie. It is very different from WOK, except for a certain iconic scene. It completely changes the story of Khan and how he is found, etc. Chris Pine really stepped up his acting this time, as his Kirk takes a step to grow up. And it is a non stop action movie. I don't fall asleep in this like I do Star Trek: The Motion Picture!! Frankly, I never understand how anyone can "lost interest" with out actually seeing the movie. I would rather hate a movie after I have seen it.....like Twilight. At least then, I can avoid going to the sequels with my girlfriend. But, I have gone to many movies I had no interest in seeing, and actually enjoyed quite a few. I never listen to critics or what the IMDB message boards say!

Well, TMP is my favorite of the films and I don't really care for 'non-stop action' films. First "Trek" film left a nasty flavor in my mouth, so I'm not seeing this one.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness Discussion   Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:14 pm

It's ultimately your loss. Personally speaking, this is the best Trek film for me since The Undiscovered Country. Finally, a thinking man's movie!

And McCoy always gets the best lines.

Spoiler:
 
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness Discussion   Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:27 pm

You're right, Rust! This movie kicked "The Motion Picture"'s butt in terms of intelligent storytelling. There are themes, lessons are learned, real sci-fi allegory that parallels our own times. It's all there, but the director didn't feel he had to beat us over the head with it. Plus it's fun.

"The Motion Picture" taught us one thing, stop sending out space probes or else they may come back one day and destroy us all. Not much of an inspirational life lesson is it? Chances are you'll die of boredom before that happens watching TMP. We got a new admirals uniform from that film and that's really the only worthwhile bit of it.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness Discussion   Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:45 pm

squishy wrote:
You're right, Rust! This movie kicked "The Motion Picture"'s butt in terms of intelligent storytelling. There are themes, lessons are learned, real sci-fi allegory that parallels our own times. It's all there, but the director didn't feel he had to beat us over the head with it. Plus it's fun.

"The Motion Picture" taught us one thing, stop sending out space probes or else they may come back one day and destroy us all. Not much of an inspirational life lesson is it? Chances are you'll die of boredom before that happens watching TMP. We got a new admirals uniform from that film and that's really the only worthwhile bit of it.

Well, Spock did find his emotional side. And he showed more of it in TWOK.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness Discussion   Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:02 pm

I actually want to see this film following everyones comments, but will wait until it is a value release on dvd. I am still stuck with a sealed copy of the first one that I have no interest in ever seeing again.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness Discussion   Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:02 pm

am I the only one who does not get bored from TMP? I personally enjoy every moment of it. Seems I am the only one who does not need battles and explosions to enjoy science fiction. >_>
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness Discussion   Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:18 pm

I like TMP, but really wish they had released all three versions of it. I really like McCoy and Uhuras comments.

Uhura - "It could hold a crew of tens of thousands."

McCoy - "Or a crew of a thousand ten miles tall."

Some very powerful stuff there.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness Discussion   Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:36 pm

The Castellan wrote:
am I the only one who does not get bored from TMP? I personally enjoy every moment of it. Seems I am the only one who does not need battles and explosions to enjoy science fiction. >_>

SFDebris covered the movie far better then I, but the basic crux of it was:

"Effects in service of the story enhance the story.
Effects in lieu of a story are ultimately boring."

Too much of TMP is spent with reaction shots and long, lingering shots on Special Effects. The actual story of TMP is solid. It would have been a lot more solid if we'd had fewer lingering shots of static objects and more...say...interaction between Illeya and Decker before Illeya became a synthetic Meat Puppet. Ya know...make her death mean something to the audience.

For those interested, SFDebris' review can be seen HERE. He covers all the films up to Trek 09, and his insights are thoughtful and his snark makes things entertaining.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness Discussion   Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:41 pm

The Castellan wrote:
am I the only one who does not get bored from TMP? I personally enjoy every moment of it. Seems I am the only one who does not need battles and explosions to enjoy science fiction. >_>

I enjoy the Director's Cut much more than the original. It has flaws, but there's still a lot I like about it, including evoking some sense of wonder about space. Which the Star Trek movies don't do really well after this.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness Discussion   Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:18 pm

I have actually napped during the Vejur fly around. Usually wake up when the emergency klaxons sound when the probe invades the bridge. There are some parts I like, but it has to be one of the worst acted movies ever, especially among the supporting cast.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness Discussion   Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:29 pm

I really like Abram's Trek, but I don't get what the smoke monster was supposed to portray when Jennifer Garner kept kicking its tail. Or was I having a mind blur from all the screen flares? ...hmmm...
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PostSubject: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness Discussion   Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:48 pm

jonwes wrote:
The Castellan wrote:
am I the only one who does not get bored from TMP? I personally enjoy every moment of it. Seems I am the only one who does not need battles and explosions to enjoy science fiction. >_>

I enjoy the Director's Cut much more than the original. It has flaws, but there's still a lot I like about it, including evoking some sense of wonder about space. Which the Star Trek movies don't do really well after this.

Precisely. I'd make a cut where it has everything, except the bit of kirk leaving the air lock, or at least use CGI to cover the exposed rafters and railings. Also, as you said, most Trek films are just fighting villains, rather than seeing what's out there, TMP did, however. Plus I loved the beginning, where we just see stars and the Ilea theme plays for several minutes, reminding me of a time when music used to play in the theater before the film started. Also, the Enterprise in the first film 'felt real', as if we were looking at an actual, large metal space vessel, and not a a toy. Plus the ship never looked better, classy.....the Sophia Loren of space ships if you will. JJ's Enterprise reminds me of those top heavy, silicon cow queens or media divas like your Kardassians or something.

Funny, Ronpur, but the V'ger flyby is one of the most interesting parts of the film. And you call this the worst acted film? heck, I thought #3 had that.

Rust, well...don't all the films have lingering shots? And at least Robert Wise, whom I consider a REAL director, did not depend on an overuse of lens flares, which, to me, are highly overrated, they are about as annoying and overrated as the Wilhelm scream.
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