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 S7E2: Dinosaurs on a Spaceship (SPOILERS)

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Ronpur
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PostSubject: Re: S7E2: Dinosaurs on a Spaceship (SPOILERS)   Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:22 pm

Ronpur wrote:
Scary wrote:
Oooo, beware spoilers Ronpur! I'm alright with it personally cos I already knew but others might not be so appreciative. Razz

Spoiler:
 

Fixed it.

And this:
Spoiler:
 
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PostSubject: Re: S7E2: Dinosaurs on a Spaceship (SPOILERS)   Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:41 pm

Evil Monkey Pope wrote:
Pterodactyls aren't a scientificly accurate name but it's acceptable as a widely used umbrella term. It's more eggregious that they didn't depict any of the dinosaurs as feathered.

Sorry, I should have said that it was socially acceptable by people who want to be wrong.

It's pterosaur if you want to use an umbrella term but by the size and build of it, it was a Pteranodon. The only problem with that is, they were primarily fish eaters and so going after larger mammals is very irritating but hey, it's popular for television.
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hitman hart
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PostSubject: Re: S7E2: Dinosaurs on a Spaceship (SPOILERS)   Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:08 pm

i loved it!!
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Calixar
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PostSubject: Re: S7E2: Dinosaurs on a Spaceship (SPOILERS)   Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:44 pm

AppleJack25 wrote:
Evil Monkey Pope wrote:
Pterodactyls aren't a scientificly accurate name but it's acceptable as a widely used umbrella term. It's more eggregious that they didn't depict any of the dinosaurs as feathered.

Sorry, I should have said that it was socially acceptable by people who want to be wrong.

It's pterosaur if you want to use an umbrella term but by the size and build of it, it was a Pteranodon. The only problem with that is, they were primarily fish eaters and so going after larger mammals is very irritating but hey, it's popular for television.
~

Yeah, people still think brontosaurus was a real thing, too. You just have to run with the fact that most people don't know these things and accept that "normal" folks say these words.
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Ronpur
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PostSubject: Re: S7E2: Dinosaurs on a Spaceship (SPOILERS)   Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:25 am

Well, some people still call chimps monkeys.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E2: Dinosaurs on a Spaceship (SPOILERS)   Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:24 am

Calixar wrote:
AppleJack25 wrote:
Evil Monkey Pope wrote:
Pterodactyls aren't a scientificly accurate name but it's acceptable as a widely used umbrella term. It's more eggregious that they didn't depict any of the dinosaurs as feathered.

Sorry, I should have said that it was socially acceptable by people who want to be wrong.

It's pterosaur if you want to use an umbrella term but by the size and build of it, it was a Pteranodon. The only problem with that is, they were primarily fish eaters and so going after larger mammals is very irritating but hey, it's popular for television.
~

Yeah, people still think brontosaurus was a real thing, too. You just have to run with the fact that most people don't know these things and accept that "normal" folks say these words.

Ick, I twitch whenever someone calls it a Brontosaurus. I mean, if Riddell had called it a Pterodacytl that would be understandable because of what was known back then. But the Doctor, of all people! If any books refer to a Pteranodon as a Pterodactyl or an Apatosaurus as a Brontosaurus I won't look at any other part of the book and ignore it. If they also get the size of a Velociraptor wrong or say that it does not have feathers, it's outdated, but yes, definitely with the other two, it's just really annoying.
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Evil Monkey Pope
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PostSubject: Re: S7E2: Dinosaurs on a Spaceship (SPOILERS)   Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:10 am

A Brontosaurus was thought to be an an Apatosaurus with a T-Rex head so that's the most incorrect of all those options.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E2: Dinosaurs on a Spaceship (SPOILERS)   Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:39 am

Evil Monkey Pope wrote:
A Brontosaurus was thought to be an an Apatosaurus with a T-Rex head so that's the most incorrect of all those options.

What other options? What are you talking about and what are you getting at? Also, what books have you been studying all these years on prehistory?

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Evil Monkey Pope
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PostSubject: Re: S7E2: Dinosaurs on a Spaceship (SPOILERS)   Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:32 pm

I was mistaken. It was a Camarasaurus skull on an Apatosaurus body that was thought to be a Brontosaurus. In the sense that the "Brontosaurus" skeleton misassembled thusly didn't reflect any existing dinosaur it's altogether wrong. Calling a Utah Raptor a Velociraptor is a common mistake, for example, but forgivable since both creatures existed & are similar. Calling an Apatosaurus a Brontosaurus is worse because Brontosauri aren't real dinosaurs.
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jonwes
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PostSubject: Re: S7E2: Dinosaurs on a Spaceship (SPOILERS)   Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:53 pm

Evil Monkey Pope wrote:
Brontosauri aren't real dinosaurs.

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PostSubject: Re: S7E2: Dinosaurs on a Spaceship (SPOILERS)   Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:31 am

Evil Monkey Pope wrote:
I was mistaken. It was a Camarasaurus skull on an Apatosaurus body that was thought to be a Brontosaurus. In the sense that the "Brontosaurus" skeleton misassembled thusly didn't reflect any existing dinosaur it's altogether wrong. Calling a Utah Raptor a Velociraptor is a common mistake, for example, but forgivable since both creatures existed & are similar. Calling an Apatosaurus a Brontosaurus is worse because Brontosauri aren't real dinosaurs.

How are they similar, the Utahraptor and the Velociraptor? For one, they didn't even live on the same continent and the Velociraptor wasn't terribly big whilst the Utahraptor was one of the biggest dromaeosaurs of its time. It's only dwarfed by the Megaraptor and I think there might be one of similar size in Australia recently discovered in the last few years or so.

Now the Utahraptor was in the Barremian stage of the early Cretaceous, so not in the same stage as the Velociraptor, who was around during the Campanian stage of the late Cretaceous. Utahraptor was 6m (23") long.

Velociraptor was 2n (6.6") long and lived in present day Mongolia, China, and Russia. The fact that "Jurassic Park" suggested that Velociraptors even existed in the Montana Badlands is a joke. The research was there, Spielberg just didn't want to use it. Again, these are only common mistakes made by people who are either reading bad books or rely entirely upon movies and tv shows for their prehistoric research.

I think whatever books you're reading you should abandon. Common mistakes? I don't think so. Again, I think the only people who mistake them are people who aren't into prehistoric times or especially dromaeosaurids because passing conversation, yeah, the uneducated will speak of what they don't know but to those who actually care, heh, not an easy mistake to make.

And you know, it's okay to get something wrong. I mistakingly called a Giganotosaurus a G-Rex and was reprimanded about that because unlike T-Rex, which is short for Tyrannosaurus Rex, a sub-species of the Tyrannosaurus, the Giganotsaurus has no such sub-species. I've never shortened it to anything since then. I was called on my error and just made sure not to do it again, I didn't debate the whole issue with anyone and continually prove how people who aren't actually into prehistoric times and creatures will make these "common" mistakes yet for the general populace, we don't.

Velociraptor =/= Utahraptor ... sorry but that one I have to laugh at. Seriously, who would honestly make that mistake? They're not even on the same continent and by the Cretaceous, the continents were already well seperated from each other. Europe might have been a bunch of islands in the early stages of the Cretaceous and India might have been drifting towards the Himalayas, but there's no way that the Utahraptor and the Velociraptor could have met, except through major Hollywood blunder.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E2: Dinosaurs on a Spaceship (SPOILERS)   Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:33 am

jonwes wrote:
Evil Monkey Pope wrote:
Brontosauri aren't real dinosaurs.


Oh no Littlefoot!!!

*hugs him*

Gosh I still love those movies and that tv show!!!

~
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PostSubject: Re: S7E2: Dinosaurs on a Spaceship (SPOILERS)   Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:58 am

Yes, Velociraptors & Utahraptors are very different in context. When you take them out of context, such as sci-fi setting, it's less easy to tell them apart. They'd probably look similar enough that an adult Velociraptor could be mistaken for a young Utahraptor if both popped up simultaneously in the present in one spot. If you just guessed Raptor (without a prefix) you'd be right for both. It's less of a jump to confuse these species than it would be to mistake a Hadrosaurus for an Anklyosaurus. People even misidentify non-extinct animals, especially in motion.

It seems like we both have hang-ups about dinosaur specificty in media but they're set off by different inaccuracies.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E2: Dinosaurs on a Spaceship (SPOILERS)   Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:24 am

Evil Monkey Pope wrote:
Yes, Velociraptors & Utahraptors are very different in context. When you take them out of context, such as sci-fi setting, it's less easy to tell them apart. They'd probably look similar enough that an adult Velociraptor could be mistaken for a young Utahraptor if both popped up simultaneously in the present in one spot. If you just guessed Raptor (without a prefix) you'd be right for both. It's less of a jump to confuse these species than it would be to mistake a Hadrosaurus for an Anklyosaurus. People even misidentify non-extinct animals, especially in motion.

It seems like we both have hang-ups about dinosaur specificty in media but they're set off by different inaccuracies.

How is this even a valid argument?

You're trying to compare two different types of people right now. Stop lumping me into the general populace of uninterested and uneducated about prehistoric creatures and times because I am NOT one of them. I'd be able to tell the difference simply because I have done far more research than most passing interest people and those who just plain don't care to know the difference. As I said, it's okay to be wrong. You don't need to continually defend ignorance because it's only making this worse.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E2: Dinosaurs on a Spaceship (SPOILERS)   Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:54 am

I'm not trying to lump you into anything. It'd be great if the media got more stuff correct about dinosaurs. Fictional characters are likely to make errors when encountering dinosaurs for the first time. It could be that they're not paleontologists & it would break believability if ignorant characters perfectly described every dinosaur like it was a nature documentary. Even experts make mistakes in high stress situations. Or the effects team might've gotten the wrong reference & the the resources to correct it weren't there.
While I'm sure you've got a better grounding in prehistoric animals than me, it seems like you're getting overly defensive. Learning about dinosaurs from books is great, but there's so much that scientists don't know about dinosaurs yet. A good amount of what we think we know about dinosaurs is educated guesswork & artistic interpretation. Nobody alive has any authoritative experience with living dinosaurs. If you were in a hangar full of living dinosaurs brought to the present from various eras & locales I'd wager you'd misidentify a few species on the first try.
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Calixar
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PostSubject: Re: S7E2: Dinosaurs on a Spaceship (SPOILERS)   Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:26 pm

This conversation has begun to amuse me. My book from last year, The Winds of All Worlds, involves a silly argument (given the setting in which it occurs) as to whether the pack of reptiles hunting them are velociraptors or deinonychus.
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squishy
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PostSubject: Re: S7E2: Dinosaurs on a Spaceship (SPOILERS)   Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:27 pm

All my dinosaur knowledge comes from this book:
http://www.whona.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=W&Product_Code=1083039111&Category_Code=stickeractivbks

You need to trust the Doctor! elephant
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PostSubject: Re: S7E2: Dinosaurs on a Spaceship (SPOILERS)   Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:58 am

squishy wrote:
All my dinosaur knowledge comes from this book:
http://www.whona.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=W&Product_Code=1083039111&Category_Code=stickeractivbks

You need to trust the Doctor! elephant

I actually have that and I was impressed with how accurate it was for its day!
~
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PostSubject: Re: S7E2: Dinosaurs on a Spaceship (SPOILERS)   Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:03 am

Evil Monkey Pope wrote:
I'm not trying to lump you into anything. It'd be great if the media got more stuff correct about dinosaurs. Fictional characters are likely to make errors when encountering dinosaurs for the first time. It could be that they're not paleontologists & it would break believability if ignorant characters perfectly described every dinosaur like it was a nature documentary. Even experts make mistakes in high stress situations. Or the effects team might've gotten the wrong reference & the the resources to correct it weren't there.
While I'm sure you've got a better grounding in prehistoric animals than me, it seems like you're getting overly defensive. Learning about dinosaurs from books is great, but there's so much that scientists don't know about dinosaurs yet. A good amount of what we think we know about dinosaurs is educated guesswork & artistic interpretation. Nobody alive has any authoritative experience with living dinosaurs. If you were in a hangar full of living dinosaurs brought to the present from various eras & locales I'd wager you'd misidentify a few species on the first try.

Maybe I wouldn't because if I didn't know what a creature was I'd simply ask. Wink

And I am sure you mean to include all prehistoric life rather than limit it to dinosaurs, which had a very limited run in the great span of time as well as all the other creatures who weren't dinosaurs. As for why I'm defensive, easy. I'm passionate about these creatures and the time. I thought that was rather obvious and would have eliminated the need for asking why I am so defensive. And, the Doctor isn't just any normal character. He is supposed to be the expert on many things and continually corrects people. He should know the difference.
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