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 S7E1: Asylum of the Daleks (SPOILERS)

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Rate S7E1: The Asylum of the Daleks
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Total Votes : 43
 

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Evil Monkey Pope
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PostSubject: Re: S7E1: Asylum of the Daleks (SPOILERS)   Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:25 pm

I like having a useful companion, but I'm worried that Oswin's genius may be a little too on par with River or Romana. Maybe it's just her being connected to the Daleks that made her so clever so it won't be as exaggerated when she's a proper companion. I like the notion that she's a lesbian & won't be from contemporary Earth as originally stated.
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Rust
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PostSubject: Re: S7E1: Asylum of the Daleks (SPOILERS)   Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:52 pm

Evil Monkey Pope wrote:
I like the notion that she's a lesbian

Que? I know she had that little bit about her first Boyfriend being named Rory - but actually she was named Nina - but how does that imply her being homosexual?

She might be like Captain Jack and be omnisexual, but I didn't get the impression of her being a lesbian like the Victorian Silurian.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E1: Asylum of the Daleks (SPOILERS)   Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:33 pm

Evil Monkey Pope wrote:
I like having a useful companion, but I'm worried that Oswin's genius may be a little too on par with River or Romana. Maybe it's just her being connected to the Daleks that made her so clever so it won't be as exaggerated when she's a proper companion. I like the notion that she's a lesbian & won't be from contemporary Earth as originally stated.

Rust wrote:
Que? I know she had that little bit about her first Boyfriend being named Rory - but actually she was named Nina - but how does that imply her being homosexual?

She might be like Captain Jack and be omnisexual, but I didn't get the impression of her being a lesbian like the Victorian Silurian.


She said that she flirted with a girl named Nina and it was just a phase she was going through. Doesn't make her a lesbian... although it does show she's open minded on the subject.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E1: Asylum of the Daleks (SPOILERS)   Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:53 pm

I thought she had meant that her liking boys was just a phase she went through but was actually into girls. I guess will know for sure when she becomes a companion.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E1: Asylum of the Daleks (SPOILERS)   Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:38 pm

After watching a few more times, I have seen a few more Classic Daleks, but mostly just quick flashes of domes or fenders. The best ones are still the spinning Evil Guard that was the spinning dancer in Amy's illusion and the SWD that is behind Rory during the egg scene.

I am interested to find out how or even if Oswin becomes Clara. The way this show gets written, it could be nothing in common at all and just a trick.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E1: Asylum of the Daleks (SPOILERS)   Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:45 pm

I watched it again and does this remind anyone of CAL the Character from silence in the library?
Spoiler:
 

I was thinking during the episode prior to the Ending that Oswin was in a Tardis. A fully functional Tardis can Blend in like the Masters could in the early years. In the Keeper of Traken the master turned his tardis into Melkur.

I wish they could have made this a 2 parter cause it seemed like they condensed it to fit in the time slot and some of parts that tied things together ended up on the cutting room floor.

Typical Moffat he will have us all typing about this for days, talking to our Therapists on the Couch about this lol etc........
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PostSubject: Re: S7E1: Asylum of the Daleks (SPOILERS)   Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:45 pm

Here are the Daleks!!

http://www.thedoctorwhosite.co.uk/dalek/daleks-in-the-asylum/
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PostSubject: Re: S7E1: Asylum of the Daleks (SPOILERS)   Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:46 pm

rmlextreme wrote:
I watched it again and does this remind anyone of CAL the Character from silence in the library?
Spoiler:
 

I was thinking during the episode prior to the Ending that Oswin was in a Tardis. A fully functional Tardis can Blend in like the Masters could in the early years. In the Keeper of Traken the master turned his tardis into Melkur.

I wish they could have made this a 2 parter cause it seemed like they condensed it to fit in the time slot and some of parts that tied things together ended up on the cutting room floor.

Typical Moffat he will have us all typing about this for days, talking to our Therapists on the Couch about this lol etc........

CAL is a good comparison,never thought of that!!
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PostSubject: Re: S7E1: Asylum of the Daleks (SPOILERS)   Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:54 pm

It seems Jenna's in next week's episode as well.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E1: Asylum of the Daleks (SPOILERS)   Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:46 pm

"Every Party has a Pooper, an yup, that's me"

Thought I'd start off with a joke, since I'm in the minority of being negative here. I was debating about writing a review for this episode, but because I have so many problems with it, here goes....

What Moffat thinks is 'Scary'/Vs. what is actually scary. I know I'm one of the few who actually enjoyed Victory of the Daleks, when the Daleks won, and used a human/robot filled with a bomb to escape. However, He said that he wouldn't bring them back unless they could be 'Scary' again. So this episode was his mirror or the Cyberman from the Pandorica Opens. All Cobwebs and skeletons. Might as well have called it "House on Haunted Hill with Daleks" or "Thirteen Ghosts with Daleks".

My point is, as a regular viewer of Horror movies, this was kid's stuff. Insert Haunted House/Asylum/Hospital, add Skeletons, cobwebs, and people who are not really people, and Voila! You have scary (not really). The Cyberman head/body from the Pandorica Opens made me laugh, while most people said it made them scary again. This did the same for me. I just don't see it. I was honestly waiting for a Dalek to have red and green stripes and a fedora, that would have been Scary! (sarcasm)

Second, Moffat seems to rely on 'People not being People'. We've had the Gangers, the Autons, now the Dalek People. Personally, I'm tired of it, because 1: I see it coming from a mile away and B: It's not scary for the 100th Time the Doctor says "wait....this is a trap....and your not really a person!" Either Moffat thinks people are really scary, or he can't come up with a way to scare us with Monsters. Not my cup of tea.

C: The whole plotline, or lack of it. Yes, I understand that this is one of those episodes you almost have to watch twice to understand. Oswald was a Dalek, and she was blasting her music and making soufle's, etc, etc, and it was making the Dalek's nervous. But why? Where they afraid that she was going to break out of the Asylum and turn all of them into people? That seems highly unlikely, since she didn't even know she was a Dalek?

That leads me to my biggest problem with the episode, the 'Human Dalek'. How was this possible? I know that RTD did this with the Cybusmen, but IMO, there was some leeway, because they were still human, in a robot body. Daleks are supposed to cull out everything and only be pure Hate/Dalek (remember The Parting of the Ways?). How was it possible that they took her brain or whatever from her body, but she fully retained her personality? That makes no sense to me in the entire history of Doctor Who, and please, don't try to explain it, because it still wont' make any sense to me, and will still be the biggest fault I have with the episode.

Finally, I get to my least favorite topic, that is, the Ponds. I hate them, and moreover, I hate Moffat for writing such vapid, 2dimensional characters that make no sense from Series to Series, and yet we are supposed to care that they are going away this year. I would care more if the Doctor got a hair cut. Amy was just one of the worst human beings starting out in this episode, the reason she gave for being that way was a weak cop out for not only her behavior, but the entire 'plotline' of them breaking up. By the end of the episode it is all resolved (for no good reason), she is back to just being mildly irritating, and all is back as it was.

I want to make it clear that this is not the worst Moffat episode in my opinion(Last Series deserves that in my book), or not even the worst Dalek episode (Revelations of the Daleks, many of the 6th Doctor mistakes), but it still wasn't a good episode in my view.

We go from Victory of the Daleks, to them begging the Doctor for help, for no good reason I can see. Then we get Moffat erasing the Doctor from their memory (I can see both sides of the argument here), get another shouting match of "DOCTOR WHO????", all so that Moffat can have an easier time writing (which he needs in my opinion).

All in all, I really hope the next episode the Daleks come back in is a proper Dalek episode, with them taking over planets, killing companions, or just being evil. Not begging the Doctor for help, rotting in a Haunted House, or having a 'Human' inside.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E1: Asylum of the Daleks (SPOILERS)   Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:36 pm

I'm thinking they're building up to a BIG Dalek story, and this episode and "Victory" are leading up to it. (And the thing about retaining rights to the Daleks by using them once a year.)
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PostSubject: Re: S7E1: Asylum of the Daleks (SPOILERS)   Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:37 am

bret_owen99 wrote:

My point is, as a regular viewer of Horror movies, this was kid's stuff.

But surely you must (as you have said) recognize this is just based on your familiarity with horror, apparently? That doesn't mean it's not scary to some or even the majority. I can understand you not liking it, but you seem to be implying he's doing something "wrong" which I don't understand. I don't even find 99% of horror stories scary, but I thought this was fun and can see some being scared by it. I don't think any episode of Doctor Who has ever scared me. Slightly creeped me out, yes. Scared? No? I never understood this "behind the sofa" business. I was 8 years old and watching Doctor Who late at night on PBS and can't say I was ever gripped with fear. But I did find it delightfully creepy. Personally, I felt the same about this.

Granted, it might be an OBVIOUS sort of scary... but so are most horror movies too. There are some conventions to create an scary atmosphere. But I will say overall I didn't find the majority of the episode even going for a really scary vibe. Just moments.

Quote :
Second, Moffat seems to rely on 'People not being People'...

I can appreciate this, but it's not exactly like this is anything new in sci-fi, let alone Doctor Who. Think of all the times people have been possessed or aliens have taken form in the long history of Doctor Who. It seems a TAD big weird to pin this on Moffat. Smile

Quote :
C: The whole plotline, or lack of it. Yes, I understand that this is one of those episodes you almost have to watch twice to understand...

I've only seen it once so far, but I think you did miss some important stuff in there, but I don't think it was exactly hidden.

Quote :
That makes no sense to me in the entire history of Doctor Who, and please, don't try to explain it, because it still wont' make any sense to me, and will still be the biggest fault I have with the episode.

Well, you've clearly made up your mind, but you could note that the Daleks that did this too her ARE the insane Daleks in the asylum. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: S7E1: Asylum of the Daleks (SPOILERS)   Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:41 am

jonwes wrote:

But surely you must (as you have said) recognize this is just based on your familiarity with horror, apparently? That doesn't mean it's not scary to some or even the majority. I can understand you not liking it, but you seem to be implying he's doing something "wrong" which I don't understand. I don't even find 99% of horror stories scary, but I thought this was fun and can see some being scared by it. I don't think any episode of Doctor Who has ever scared me. Slightly creeped me out, yes. Scared? No? I never understood this "behind the sofa" business. I was 8 years old and watching Doctor Who late at night on PBS and can't say I was ever gripped with fear. But I did find it delightfully creepy. Personally, I felt the same about this.

Granted, it might be an OBVIOUS sort of scary... but so are most horror movies too. There are some conventions to create an scary atmosphere. But I will say overall I didn't find the majority of the episode even going for a really scary vibe. Just moments.

This. There hasn't been a scary episode for a complaint about this one not being scary to be valid.... plus, this isn't a series for adults, I don't know what some people actually expect out of these 'scary' episodes.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E1: Asylum of the Daleks (SPOILERS)   Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:02 am

jaredofmo wrote:
I'm thinking they're building up to a BIG Dalek story, and this episode and "Victory" are leading up to it. (And the thing about retaining rights to the Daleks by using them once a year.)



I really hope not. I'm still very annoyed that the doctor has completely forgotten about the person who tried to blow up the TARDIS. That story needs to be focused on and not forgotten about.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E1: Asylum of the Daleks (SPOILERS)   Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:24 am

Ya see Moffat has us all discussing this still lol.

Silence will fall when the Question is Answered, A Question hidden in plain sight and now the Daleks are saying it altogether Doctor Who?, Doctor Who? and Then the Doctor was Saying it to himself Dr Who? Dr WHO?

DOCTOR WHO? This is the new riddle of Season 7

DOCTOR WHO?: they are turning an old man Stealing a a blue box to explore the Galaxy into a conspiracy thing. Maybe he and his grand daughter susan left and they were part of a Time lord royal family etc and he was trying to save both of them ? And if his name is revealed an entire religious order is out of business. No more tax exempt purchases for the Silences! I can picture someone with an Eye Drive arguing at a Best Buy to get the tax exempt purchase lol

Ok its 4am and i think i have the FLU! I could use a Doctor:) and there is a crack in my Wall, im so screwed!
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PostSubject: Re: S7E1: Asylum of the Daleks (SPOILERS)   Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:28 am

bret_owen99 wrote:

My point is, as a regular viewer of Horror movies, this was kid's stuff.

Which, seeing as how Doctor Who is a family friendly show that used to be aimed at kids...

Quote :
Either Moffat thinks people are really scary, or he can't come up with a way to scare us with Monsters.

Well, as George A. Romero won't stop bleating on about in his Zombie films: Man is the Real Monster. Laughing

Quote :
C: The whole plotline, or lack of it. Yes, I understand that this is one of those episodes you almost have to watch twice to understand. Oswald was a Dalek, and she was blasting her music and making soufle's, etc, etc, and it was making the Dalek's nervous. But why? Where they afraid that she was going to break out of the Asylum and turn all of them into people? That seems highly unlikely, since she didn't even know she was a Dalek?

They were afraid the millions of lunatics on the Asylum Planet would figure out how to get off of it. Since the rest of the Dalek race had a revulsion/idolization of the inmates (They weren't legitimate Daleks in their eyes, but nor could they exterminate such "divine" hatred), they decided to bring the Doctor in to do their dirty work for them. And really, it was a package deal for them. The Doctor goes where they cannot, and then they destroy the Doctor.

My guess - and this is only conjecture - is the Daleks knew about the Alaska and Oswin after a fashion. The Nano-Cloud wouldn't have bothered them so much, but if the Insane Daleks were making more of themselves, then there's a possibility they were going to try to use that intellect to leave.

Remember the Roboman who initially found Amy? He was legitimately working on something before he went scampering off and there was no need to remain "in cover".


Quote :

That leads me to my biggest problem with the episode, the 'Human Dalek'.... How was it possible that they took her brain or whatever from her body, but she fully retained her personality? That makes no sense to me in the entire history of Doctor Who, and please, don't try to explain it, because it still wont' make any sense to me, and will still be the biggest fault I have with the episode.


Colin Baker's Revelation of the Daleks. Strong wills can resist Dalek conditioning, but not even Oswin escaped it completely. Not only with the obvious "EXTERMINATE!" when the Doctor tore down the facade she'd used to protect her psyche, but also at the beginning of the episode when she remarked "They got in again last night - always in the night." and we hear Daleks banging on her door as she cranks up her music. She was fighting the conditioning, but when she "slept" the Dalek personality got in.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E1: Asylum of the Daleks (SPOILERS)   Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:04 am

Did you guys see the American prequel? A friend just sent it me, only just saw it. I was hoping it was something to do with the Silence since the hooded man looked a lot like a Headless Monk but I guess it was just the Daleks leading him into the trap with that Dalek-woman-agent-thing on Skaro. Still cool nonetheless!

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PostSubject: Re: S7E1: Asylum of the Daleks (SPOILERS)   Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:22 am

I enjoyed the episode. It gave us a different spin on the Daleks (the parlament, the asylum planet, needing the Doctor's help), which is really hard for a charactres that have been around for so long.

But what I enjoyed most is the Ponds. They annoy me and I can't wiat for them to leave. But I felt an emotional reaction to their breakup. I got married knowing that my wife could not have children. It is an emotional thing and not something to be taken lightly. I felt that they did a good job of this. And they whole 'breakup' story paid off for me then they showed the Doctor fixing his bowtie! In the middle of being chased by insane Daleks, the Doctor still was worried about his friends and helped mend their realtionship. It was a great character moment for the Doctor!

Finally, the kid in me laughed when the Daleks said "Doctor Who?" That was just a really fun moment.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E1: Asylum of the Daleks (SPOILERS)   Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:36 pm

Scary wrote:
Did you guys see the American prequel? A friend just sent it me, only just saw it. I was hoping it was something to do with the Silence since the hooded man looked a lot like a Headless Monk but I guess it was just the Daleks leading him into the trap with that Dalek-woman-agent-thing on Skaro. Still cool nonetheless!

Thank, Scary. Not sure if the Prequel adds much to the story. We knew the Doctor got a mysterious meaage to meet on Skaro. Now we know all about the message but have a mysterious messenger. One mystery replaces another! Question

But it did have some funny dialogue and a sureal atmosphere. Good fun!
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PostSubject: Re: S7E1: Asylum of the Daleks (SPOILERS)   Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:16 pm

I said my piece, I know not everyone agrees with it. I know Moffat likes to write convoluted, complicated, messes of stories, which his fans think are more complicated than they actually are (reminds me a lot of Inception, horrible story).

50 years, Doctor Who has been around, I wonder how many people said "What if we had Daleks in a Haunted House?" This has nothing to do with children, or the rating of the show, it has to do with the writer.

As far as 'pinning' the human disguise thing on him, I think it's more than fair after the last 2 Series. Let's count the ways: Prisoner Zero, Professor Bracewell, the Vampires of Venice, Amy's Choice alien things, The Lodger Hologram, The Pandorica Opens Autons, Rory, Ganger Amy, Gangers in general, the Teselecta.

I'm just on overload from the last 2 Series alone.

I know my reviews won't be much of a surprise to people. When I hear the words 'written by Steven Moffat' I cringe. I can't even make it through the first episode of Sherlock (I've been a lifelong fan of Holmes, and have read almost every Sir Arthur Conan Doyle Sherlock story I could get my hands on). This is just my opinions, and nothing more. I know it got rave reviews, and high ratings, but it just falls flat on me. I'm like Stan from South Park, all I hear is Pffffffffffffffft.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E1: Asylum of the Daleks (SPOILERS)   Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:45 pm

Classical Gallifrey once mentioned that none of Doctor Who's script editors/show runners ever fix the weaknesses they get criticized for. They just keep doing the same things but bigger. So Moffat is just going to get Moffatier over time. So if you don't like Moffat, tye situation is not going to improve for youuntil there's a new showrunner.
I liked having the Daleks in a haunted house. The Daleks (& most aliens in general) are least interesting when put into a tradional sci-fi setting. Putting the Daleks into a new setting puts the characters & audience off balance. The problem was that this episode didn't do enough with that setting. If you had full power insane Daleks zipping around an ill-lit unsafe asylum it would've be much more effective than just using sleepy broken Daleks. If we had gotten more time to know that guy from the Alaska his transformation into a Dalek would've been horrifying. The best parts were with Oswin & Amy because it was gothic psychological horror. Had the Daleks also been a physical threat rather than set dressing it would've been a home run.
Thank you for being another person that recognizes that Inception is terrible.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E1: Asylum of the Daleks (SPOILERS)   Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:54 pm

It might just be me, but I wasn't really a fan of the Oswin part of the story, I feel like they tried to cram too much story into one episode, and I would've preferred to see more daleks over some of the Oswin scenes.

But, on the other hand, it is cool that they've resurrected Skaro, since it was supposedly destroyed in the time war.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E1: Asylum of the Daleks (SPOILERS)   Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:06 pm

I don't like a resurrected Skaro. It doesn't serve any purpose. I liked the giant Dalek statue but it could've been on any planet. It's much stronger storytelling to leave it destroyed like Mondas.
Of course we don't know if Skaro has been undestroyed. Now that the Daleks have some time travel capacity they could've led the Doctor into a trap there befored it got blown up in Remberance of the Daleks.
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PostSubject: Re: S7E1: Asylum of the Daleks (SPOILERS)   Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:15 pm

All I'm saying is Oswin being a Dalek has been done before back in Colin's era.

I do agree with Bret however that the "Human Disguise" is wearing thin. But again - the Robomen have been around prior to this story, so I see nothing wrong with them being included - indeed I'm glad to see them again. Nobody really remembers them after Invasion of Earth and they're a heck of a lot better then the Pig Men the Cult of Skaro were using.

As for the rest of it - I do agree this episode would have functioned far, far better as a two parter (or even better, a Classic Story Four Parter) to give us build up to the Harvey and Oswin Reveals, as well as more time spent with the Insane Daleks.

Also for Video Game fans, anybody else see Amy's "Hallucination" as a homage to Bioshock 2? Specifically how the Little Sisters see the Splicers?
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PostSubject: Re: S7E1: Asylum of the Daleks (SPOILERS)   Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:20 pm

Evil Monkey Pope wrote:
I don't like a resurrected Skaro. It doesn't serve any purpose. I liked the giant Dalek statue but it could've been on any planet. It's much stronger storytelling to leave it destroyed like Mondas.
Of course we don't know if Skaro has been undestroyed. Now that the Daleks have some time travel capacity they could've led the Doctor into a trap there befored it got blown up in Remberance of the Daleks.

Actually, funny you should say that, as Skaro wasn't actually blown up. The sun's supernova did totally destroy the face of Skaro, its surface, but the stuff in the undeground parts of the cities quite possibly survived.
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