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Evil Monkey Pope
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PostSubject: stuff that bugs you about the new series   Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:22 pm

While the new series is pretty good, there's a bunch of stuff in it that bothers me:
1.Supposedly, the Doctor killed all the Gallyfreyans along with the Daleks in one big act during he Great Time War. Since Gallifreyans automatically regenerate, wouldn't most of them survive this?
2.We're never shown even snippets of the Great Time War, which is supposed to be really important.
3.After showing us how different Martha was from Rose, they decided to write her alsmost the same as Rose.
4.We never see any of the other rooms in the TARDIS.
5.The Doctor hardly ever visits any alien planets when the BBC now has a budget to make them look interesting.
6.The Doctor seems to only care about humans now, as opposed to earlier versions when he cared about the plight of various species.
7.Captain Jack has been stuck on Earth for 150 years with a Doctor detector and connections to both Torchwood and UNIT but he waited until 2007 to reunite with him?
8.They go to all the trouble of bringing back the Master and then kill him off with some balderdash "I refuse to regenerate excuse" so they'll need an even more implausible retcon to bring him back next time.
9.The daleks are so overused they're not scary.
10.We're only shown the Doctor's adventures in Westernized Earth cultures.
11.The Doctor gets psychic abilities and can regrow hands whenever it's convennient.
12.Whenever the Earth gets invaded, it's always forgotten by the populace instead of setting up a new status quo where humans are cognizant of aliens.
13.Daleks want to mix themselves with other species to be better killing machines even though they're already perfect killing machines.
14.Martha organized the entire world to Peter Pan the Doctor back to normal even though they were still mind controlled by the Archangel network and they had no idea who the Doctor was supposed to be in the first place.
15.The Doctor whines about Gallifrey but never travels to it before it got destroyed.
16.We still don't know if The Doctor is Susan's biological grandpa.
17.The Doctor keeps insisting there's no such thing as magic although he's encountered magic suff in the past.
18.The TARDIS as a living, nigh-omnipotent magic entity named Bad Wolf doesn't jive with earlier versions of it.

I could probablly think of more stuff. What stuff bothers you?
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LakeErieMonster
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PostSubject: Re: stuff that bugs you about the new series   Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:44 pm

2.Was a concept to conveiniently eliminate the past and now they have brought stuff back from the past and it's just getting to tricky to work around. This oubliette plot device I don't believe was ever truly considered before being used. i don't know if they didn't have the confidence in the series or didn't think that newcomers would be interested in the vast history of Who.
4.Those were some of my favorite past eps when they went wandering around the ship. Some characters actually had bedrooms and such. It brought more believabilty to the show that someone's sleep/meal/leisure time was interupted by crash landing/time scoop/unexplained phenomena/ or cloister bell.
5.Please can someone at the BBC have the guts to take us someplace alien! I too am tired of not seeing anything ALIEN. Even if it comes out poorly they would have at least made the attempt. The Space station and whatnot are getting old.
8. Are you kidding me with the master! They bring him back for that brief of an extent. Shame on them. Maybe some cult can bring him back by chanting his name.
9.Unfortunately they are losing their scare factor. My other grief similar to The Master's predicament was the immediate killing of Sec. I would have liked to see a similar branching out of Dalek against other Daleks. I also believe as he stated he was thinking outside the box for the daleks. They are the perfect killing machines, then why do they always lose?
17.Why does he always dismiss magic. Wasn't stones of Blood based on the magic premise?

my adds:
1. Why are so many of the new villians evil entities from before time began....blah blah...the ancients trapped them...blah blah. Then you get some cool characters like the Judoon and they are just rent a cops?
2.Pin the Doctor down and make him actually answer some questions.
3. the psychic paper is a little sketchy, previous doctors while maybe having liked to have had it, never needed such an item. They were quick however implausible to insert themselves into any situation.
4.Now that Torchwood has been brought into the fold could someone work out a heirarchy as to how they existed and fitted into UNIT in the past and why if they were searching for the doctors return why they just didn't pop over and capture the 3rd doctor whilst stranded on earth?

hands tired all for now.
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gregtdj
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PostSubject: Re: stuff that bugs you about the new series   Tue Dec 25, 2007 11:55 am

Evil Monkey Pope wrote:
While the new series is pretty good, there's a bunch of stuff in it that bothers me
1.Time Lords were able to die violent deaths, especially in Rastillon's time. They were originally limited to x amount of regenerations, since there is no control in place any longer that may or may not be true now.

2.Two words...SEASON FIVE!! They are only doing the three long form episodes, so this would be the best time to finally cover the time war. Give me McGann and Eccleston!!

4.The wardrobe...that's all we've seen. Of all the rooms to show us, why pick the room of clothes for a character that wears the same outfit?

7.Captain Jack would have disrupted the timeline by contacting the Doctor sooner. This is one element that actually made sense.

8.Skaro snake...nothing is too implausible after that.

11. Earlier doctors had some levels of telepathy and all timelords shared a connection. I kind of thought the hand thing was nice in that it was a use of the regeneration process that no one had tried.

12.No one remembers/noticed the Loch Ness monster walking through down town...status quo.

13.Dalek Sec wanted to mix with other species to continue their existence and replenish their numbers. Of course he died for the heresy of having anything but a pure dalek.

14.The archangel device was actually believable to me in that it was meant to work to control people. Classic villain mistake of not planning for your weapon to be turned on you, so that the people would be able to join focus and shift it back the other way to affect one person. The peter pan moment was just bad use. If the people could have focused their energy I might have believed it would have been as mind control over the Master to reverse the aging process, but getting young and flying like tinkerbell?!

15.It always seemed that though they could travel to anytime, the world and lives of the limelords was outside of time and therefore existed in a time stream that could not be traveled forward or backward.

LakeErieMonster wrote:
my adds

4.Correct if mistaken, but UNIT is a known organization on a global level that deals with alien threats. TW is a secret organization started by the monarchy to observe, document and handle all alien contact. They didn't capture the Doctor until he became aware of them and popped into their midst.

Alright...just a few things that bug me...

1. Companion looove...STOP IT!! STOP IT!! STOP IT!!

2. The occasional scene drop. Where a scene feels like it was left out in between two others just to hurry the story along. A kind of "we have to get this thing", then "wow that was rough to get, but we have it."

3. Random Tardis. At one time the Tardis would arrive anywhere because it had a randomizer the Doctor had to install so he would never know where he was going and therefore could never be found. Doesn't appear to be necessary now, so either he can make it go exactly where and when he wants or he can't, but pick one!! Almost a thousand years old and he still can't control his Tardis?!
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Evil Monkey Pope
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PostSubject: Re: stuff that bugs you about the new series   Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:45 am

There were plenty of opportunities shown in seasons 2 and 3 where Jack could have met the Doctor without messing up time. It's just ridiculous that he's been there stranded for so long without making any progress. He's ral careful not to interact with the 9th Doc , but he jumps on the TARDIS without knowing which regeneration is in it? The writiers just should've avoided this logic hole by planting him a little before season 2's end as leaving him in wait for 160 years doesn't seem to have served much purpose. Plus, it presents the possiblity that mortal Jack, stranded Jack, and Torchwood Jack could all exist simultaneously during the Blitz. Wouldn't that muck up the time stream?
They need to set down some hard rules as to what kinds of time travel will destroy the space-time continuum. It seems like everything the Doctor does is fine, but anyone else's actions will ruin everything.
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PostSubject: Re: stuff that bugs you about the new series   Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:47 pm

Ahhhh yes. It is nice to see all the inconsistancies written out. It proves my point about "Canon". The show we are watching is "like" DR.WHO in many ways, but when we disect it, there are glaring mistakes. But we watch it all the same because it is still DR.WHO enough that we don't seem to care. But hey, what can we do about it?! Just roll our eyes and allow history to be rewritten.
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Evil Monkey Pope
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PostSubject: Re: stuff that bugs you about the new series   Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:24 pm

It's not that it can't be canon; they just haven't provided sufficient explanations for the inconsistencies.
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gregtdj
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PostSubject: Re: stuff that bugs you about the new series   Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:29 pm

I think Neon's partly right about one area. We started a discussion about canon in another thread and I took the side of devil's advocate, but after a little more thought about it, there are some liberties being taken, but I'm getting the opinion it's one man's ego taking them. RTD's Time War has never been fleshed out for everyone to accept or dismiss. It's mostly being used to cover whatever holes he can. Writers are allowed to write an episode but are required to include his elements for his overall story arc. He's made comments about Classic elements that he didn't care for that he later recanted after being seemingly reprimanded. The Last of the Time Lords is a good example with the Ring scene added in later. So, what hope? Moffat.

Time Crash was Moffat throwing out a one off with an homage to the Classic. I'm pulling for him to be the one to replace RTD. I think if we don't see the Time War finally fleshed out before RTD departs, then maybe Moffat can lead it where Classic fans are all (mostly) happy and New Who fans aren't left out. And maybe we'll see some of these inconsistencies cleared up.
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PostSubject: Re: stuff that bugs you about the new series   Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:51 pm

A member in my newsgroup stated, "Then the War in Heaven as described in the 8th Doctor Doctor novels begins to make its presence felt. The Time Lords create the Bottle Universe in which all the Virgin New Adventures from Timewyrm:Genesys to Twilight of the Gods occurr. This is seperate from main timeline and the entire universe is just a bolt hole for the Celestial Intervention Agency. Faction Paradox alter the Doctor's Timeline in 'Interference', leading to the events described in the Big Finish plays now occuring in the lives of the 5th, 6th and 7th Doctors."

He goes into more details, and it clears things up for me about Human Nature and such, but we still need something about The Time War (set of books even)!
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PostSubject: Re: stuff that bugs you about the new series   Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:18 pm

I never read any of the books, so you could say I am a 'purist' maybe. I only watched the program, oh alright I read the comics, I love those, but for the masses, the broadcast version is what matters when it comes to continuity.

Lets not forget that the Daleks were killed off in the first serial they appeared. I think a few things can be forgiven.

I would like to see a single 13 episode series called Doctor Who the Time War. Starring Paul McGann as the Doctor. As was once said about Colin Baker, he wasnt given a proper innings as the Doctor.

I dont think RTD should Produce it, he is quickly getting Whoed out as the phrase was coined. I watch the program to simply enjoy it.


As far as anything bugging me about the series I have an issue with something, but I know I will have my head ripped off if I bring it up, so NO COMMENT.
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gregtdj
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PostSubject: Re: stuff that bugs you about the new series   Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:43 pm

Hoosier Whovian wrote:

As far as anything bugging me about the series I have an issue with something, but I know I will have my head ripped off if I bring it up, so NO COMMENT.

Now that's being too cryptic and definitely going beyond peeking interest. All points are fair to make, even if it's not one we can all agree on, it still has the right to be expressed here. Soo...what is it?
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PostSubject: Re: stuff that bugs you about the new series   Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:58 pm

I belong to a yahoo Torchwood group and members were just picking apart Voyage of the Damned and another member expressed her desire to just be allowed to enjoy the program which is what I do, I still watch it as if I were an 8-9 yr old when I first discovered it.

They just ripped her apart, I have always heard about the British fans jumping on American fans, but you would think her name was Wallace Simpson, or she came from Argentina, with all the venom that was directed her way.

What the heck happened to having a sense of wonder about Doctor Who? I didnt mean to be cryptic or anything like that with my statement,

carry on with the thread.
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PostSubject: Re: stuff that bugs you about the new series   Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:06 am

The only thing that bugs me about the new series is it is too short...45 minutes. Sometimes the episodes are too fast paced. I liked the balance of dark and light episodes that series 3 was delivering but am concerned that series 4 will be too campy. Rtd wanted to inject more light hearted episodes.
I love humour which is what draws me into Doctor Who everytime but I hope they don't go too far in the silly pool that the plot drowns.

Oh and stop the kissy scenes...this cheapens the Doctor/Rose relationship if he snogs everything.

As for RTd Iam grateful he brought the show back and hope that someone carry the show and maintain quality in 2010.
I have been a fan since oh 1981 and Iam enjoying the success that Who is having and embracing it as long as it will last.
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PostSubject: Re: stuff that bugs you about the new series   Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:52 am

Yes, totally against it being soo short! Because of that, I can't get myself to write longer stories, as it appeals to those with short attention spans! BUT, that's the way things are anymore....

I'm glad I'm not part of that TORCHWOOD group, though somewhat intrigued, to do that to her is just assinine.
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PostSubject: Re: stuff that bugs you about the new series   Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:56 am

There was one point where I stopped considering the classic series cannon, but my mind was changed after time crash. :doc5: by the way why are there only classic character smilies? :dalek: :doc1: :doc2: :doc3: :doc4: :doc6: :doc7: :doc8: :master: :sarahjane:
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PostSubject: Re: stuff that bugs you about the new series   Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:25 am

I haven't been here that long, but I would speculate that it's a matter of this board predating the new series and being mainly aimed toward the collector's that frequent WHONA for merchandise. Some new one's would be nice, I've seen a few random one's on the web, like this one...




Show length could benefit from the SJA treatment, with at least two parts to a story. Say what you will, there really is something to the serial style eps of old. They kept you interested, waiting and wanting the next one to air immediately. Only problem with this would be that they might add too much fluff and even more snogging to stretch it out.
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PostSubject: Re: stuff that bugs you about the new series   Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:55 pm

I, too, am not a big fan of how choppy the episodes seem - both in the sense of the editing and in the sense of how short the arcs are when compared to classic Who. Where in the old days a story would unfold gradually (rewarding patience), the new show seems to happen in the comparative blink of the eye. I appreciate action as much as the next guy I suppose, but I do miss the slowness and, yes, "plodding-ness" of the olden days. The classic shows seemed to be more about a slowly unfolding puzzle, while the new shows seem to be more about *comparatively* rapid-fire action and dialogue.

That said, I really enjoy the new iteration, but I do wish they had more of the slowly-unfolding, many-episode arcs every once in a while.
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LakeErieMonster
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PostSubject: Re: stuff that bugs you about the new series   Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:43 pm

I think "They" like the short one off episode because it's good for ratings. Easier for new watchers to jump on board. I think some of the stories would have benifited greatly from a more in depth longer lasting story.

Also i think it's important to state that while some of us have these gripes and complaints, most of us; if not all are extremely happy at the return of the Doctor!Grey/Gray areas included.


How does Faction Paradox and BBC books fit into the continuity again?
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PostSubject: Re: stuff that bugs you about the new series   Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:49 am

Evil Monkey Pope wrote:
It's not that it can't be canon; they just haven't provided sufficient explanations for the inconsistencies.

The initial run of DW is riddled with inconsistencies. It comes with the format. Some examples.
-Initially the Doctor built the TARDIS and it was named by his granddaughter Susan. Now they are grown.
-There are at least three reasons for the ending of Atlantis. A Troughton story and two mentions during the Pertwee years.
-Daleks have been completely destroyed several times. Much like other evil baddies like the Master and Davros.

I am sure we can come up with many more.
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gregtdj
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PostSubject: Re: stuff that bugs you about the new series   Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:46 am

LakeErieMonster wrote:

How does Faction Paradox and BBC books fit into the continuity again?

I'd like someone to answer that or point me in a direction that can answer it. I've never read any of the books but have wanted to, only problem is I'm not sure how or if it ties in to what I know. I think someone else put out that most people base their view of canon on what has aired in the shows. I guess that's where I am on this, I'd like to read some things out there but I'm not sure what is considered as part of the continuity. Does anyone know of a source that directly says this is or isn't considered as part of the accepted "canon"? Whether it's on the web or in hard copy, I'd like to find a place to start. And I'll add the Big Finish Audio in with that too, especially in light of their work with 5-8 to further their adventures.
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PostSubject: Re: stuff that bugs you about the new series   Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:55 am

gregtdj wrote:
I think someone else put out that most people base their view of canon on what has aired in the shows. I guess that's where I am on this.

I think canon is considered the TV series only.
The recent two parter "Family of Blood" is based on a book. So I would figure the Doctor can't have the same adventure twice. TV series wins.
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Evil Monkey Pope
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PostSubject: Re: stuff that bugs you about the new series   Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:36 pm

If the Doctor didn't know the Master had been resurrected offscreen, wouldn't he think Rose would be possessed by the master when she opened the TARDIS vortex? It kinda makes more sense that The master would be trying to get out instead of the TARDIS just writing BAD WOLF throughout time out of boredom. If Rose became super-powered from the TARDIS energy, why didn't the Doctor when he sucked it out of her?
It's really dumb that UNIT would agree to wear electrified badges before being debriefed by the Slitheen. That was supposed to clear UNIT out of the way so Torchwood would rise in the alien fighting scene, but Jack tells Tosh she needs to send a report to UNIT even though Torchwood's not supposed to report to anyone outside the Queen?
How could Harriet Jones's tenure as PM be the Golden Age of GB if the doctor made her resign in about a year?
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PostSubject: Re: stuff that bugs you about the new series   Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:39 pm

The whole Harriet Jones thing bothered me, then I thought maybe after Saxon was gotten rid of perhaps she has come back into power and now they can have a Golden Age.
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PostSubject: Re: stuff that bugs you about the new series   Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:25 am

I want more of the Tardis interior...come on RTD! Heck... in the audios he had an art museum, in the t.v. series he had a pool, bedrooms...loads of stairwells...a Krispy Kreme...
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PostSubject: Re: stuff that bugs you about the new series   Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:51 am

KRISPY KREME!!!!!!!!

bounce
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PostSubject: Re: stuff that bugs you about the new series   Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:52 pm

My gripes are the same big ones that most people have. Show us an alien planet. Show more of the TARDIS. Mix up the companions a little bit - Jack worked out pretty well, didn't he?

I have a feeling we'll see the show evolve quite a bit when RTD steps down. Just as each actor makes the Doctor his own, the new exec producer will want to make the show his own. Hopefully we won't have both happen at the same time.
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