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 something crazy I just noticed

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dr.dalek
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PostSubject: something crazy I just noticed   Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:18 pm

so, I was just reading about the episode Dalek and noticed it is set in the year 2012. Van Statten, in the episode has a dalek held prisoner in his bunker, but does not know what it is and calls it a metaltron. But in the stolen earth the daleks invade in the year 2008 and make it well known that they are called daleks. So if Van Statten has a dalek in the year 2012 how does he not know what it is called if four years earlier thousands of daleks were parading around letting it be known that they are called daleks. surely Van Statten or someone on his staff would have heard about or seen the daleks when they invaded?


Last edited by dr.dalek on Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:59 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: something crazy I just noticed   Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:26 pm

Simply, they screwed up. At the time they were not certain it would be renewed past the first series, and they were also having problems with Nation's estate to get the rights to the daleks.

Another alternative is,
Wibbley wobley, timey wimey!
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Ronpur
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PostSubject: Re: something crazy I just noticed   Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:00 pm

Ah, but do we KNOW Stolen Earth takes place in 2008?

Seriously, was the date ever mentioned?
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PostSubject: Re: something crazy I just noticed   Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:13 pm

Ronpur wrote:
Ah, but do we KNOW Stolen Earth takes place in 2008?

Seriously, was the date ever mentioned?

I thought it took place in 2009...like the rest of series 4 (series 4 takes place in 2009, right?)
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dr.dalek
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PostSubject: Re: something crazy I just noticed   Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:57 pm

kcooper76 wrote:
Ronpur wrote:
Ah, but do we KNOW Stolen Earth takes place in 2008?

Seriously, was the date ever mentioned?

I thought it took place in 2009...like the rest of series 4 (series 4 takes place in 2009, right?)


it was aired in 2008 and I'm pretty sure that the episode was present day so it would be 2008
(series 4 was aired in 2008)
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PostSubject: Re: something crazy I just noticed   Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:24 pm

dr.dalek wrote:
kcooper76 wrote:
Ronpur wrote:
Ah, but do we KNOW Stolen Earth takes place in 2008?

Seriously, was the date ever mentioned?

I thought it took place in 2009...like the rest of series 4 (series 4 takes place in 2009, right?)


it was aired in 2008 and I'm pretty sure that the episode was present day so it would be 2008
(series 4 was aired in 2008)

I was under the impression that series 1 begins in 2005, then after that year passes mid-way through the series, it's 2006, then series 2 took place in 2007, series 3 in 2008, and series 4 in 2009. Then, series 5 begins in 2008 (in the first episode), and then becomes the present-day in 2010, then series 6 in 2011. But...there's no way to know for sure.
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SeaDevil
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PostSubject: Re: something crazy I just noticed   Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:27 pm

I think the biggest tell about the time of "Stolen Earth" is the state of the Torchwood team and the age of Luke from SJA. It is roughly present day. Still, before 2012.
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Ronpur
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PostSubject: Re: something crazy I just noticed   Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:46 pm

Yes, but were the UNIT stories in the 70s or 80s?

You never know. And maybe after The Big Bang reset, everyone forgot about the Stolen Earth incident.....And the Big Bang was before 2012.

Who knows! LOL, we could come up with all sorts of theories to explain things like that, but the fact is, it is a show about time travel, and continuity is not easy to maintain. As the UNIT dating problems show.

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bret_owen99
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PostSubject: Re: something crazy I just noticed   Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:22 pm

Ok, easiest explanation. Van Statten and his people lived underground in his base. Who knows how long adam had been down there, let alone other staff. Let's assume they were all down there during the Dalek invasion, and did not hear anything about it from the outside world. Sort of like when Data was in Area 51 in ID4, and didn't know what McDonald's was (or something like that).
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dr.dalek
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PostSubject: Re: something crazy I just noticed   Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:16 pm

he might not have known of the daleks and then had his entire staff mind-wiped upon hiring.
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CGren123
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PostSubject: Re: something crazy I just noticed   Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:12 am

Time can be rewritten Wink
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SeaDevil
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PostSubject: Re: something crazy I just noticed   Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:16 am

CGren123 wrote:
Time can be rewritten Wink

So says The Grand Moff when he can't think of a better way to write himself out of a corner he put himself into.

The rest of the Whoniverse up to this point largely didn't feel this way.

That whole Big Bang episode really screwed up how we see now see reality in Who. I still don't agree that we can etch-a-sketch reality, or time, or history. That whole episode was just nonsense.



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bret_owen99
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PostSubject: Re: something crazy I just noticed   Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:04 pm

I'd have to disagree with you, Seadevil. Any show that has time travel, the motto *Time can be rewritten*, should be a part of. They did that very well in the first season of HEROES (every other season was downhill, imo).

However, the problem I have, is that after Moff making a grand statement like that, hammering it over and over on us, he then does the complete Opposite time and time again.

Girl in the Xmas episode dying, Doctor doesn't save her, doesnt' even try to go back and find out what's wrong with her, he just leaves her to die. River Song, or Mels, I should say, the Doctor can't find her, but he has a Time Machine. He knows she grew up with Amy and Rory, yet he can't go back and even get her as a little girl so that her parents can raise her?

I don't call those things paradox's, or even loopholes, I just call them plain bad writing. I like Matt Smith, but from the things the 11th Doctor has allowed to happen, when he can perfectly go back in his Time Machine and rewrite History, but doesnt', I feel detached from the Doctor.
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Evil Monkey Pope
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PostSubject: Re: something crazy I just noticed   Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:04 pm

RTD was running the show for both Dalek & The Stolen Earth/Journey's End, so this continuity error rests on his shoulders.
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Ronpur
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PostSubject: Re: something crazy I just noticed   Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:36 pm

Time can be rewritten, but then they say he can't change events once he is part of the time stream. So Adric stays dead. He can't bring baby Melody back since he is part of River's life. So he could rewrite timelines he isn't a part of. Then they change their minds, and the Christmas Carol is a good example. He can mess with the old man to save Amy and Rory, but can't save the freezer girl.
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Evil Monkey Pope
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PostSubject: Re: something crazy I just noticed   Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:58 pm

It seemed like the freezer girl had a terminal illness that they didn't have resources to cure. The actual plot hole was the isomorphic controls not responding to Kazaran because his outlook on life had changed.
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bret_owen99
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PostSubject: Re: something crazy I just noticed   Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:26 pm

@Evil Monkey Pope. Yes, those Isomorphic controls really bothered me too. However, speaking about the girl, we never found out what she was dying of (one of Moffat's little *You don't have to know everything in the episode, just like you don't find out everything in life* mantra that I completely disagree with). Second, It's the DOCTOR> He has a Time and Space Machine that can go anywhere in the Galaxy. Are you really telling me he couldn't find the cure for her in the future/far off planet/past? He just left her to die, so that the Ponds could go off on a second honeymoon.

I know some people on this forum have commented that they would have left the girl to die, or accepted it, or just not cared, but I would like the think the Doctor isn't like that. That's why I don't like 11 as much as I should, when they have him do something like that. For cripes sake, in Daleks in Manhattan, the 10th Doctor did everything he could to save a dying pig man.
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Just Scott
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PostSubject: Re: something crazy I just noticed   Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:40 pm

bret_owen99 wrote:
, It's the DOCTOR> He has a Time and Space Machine that can go anywhere in the Galaxy. Are you really telling me he couldn't find the cure for her in the future/far off planet/past?

A fair point. However, that being said, if the Doctor were to do things like this every single time, then absolutely nothing evil, bad or sad would ever happen anywhere, anyplace or anywhere.

Obviously Moffat was wanting us to be "weaping in the aisles" rather than be accurate. I'm sure that many Who writers have made "artistic" allowances for the sake of the storyline?
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jaredofmo
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PostSubject: Re: something crazy I just noticed   Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:52 pm

About Abigail, she probably wants to die on her own terms now anyway, and she's ready to go after her last few days filled with joy. Anyway, if she was suddenly cured, then she'd live to see Kazran die. Let's face it, he's up in his years, she's not. She can at least say good bye to her family and friends and die peacefully.
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PostSubject: Re: something crazy I just noticed   Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:47 am

I have to say, at least he made up for it with the Xmas Special this year. I found it to be the complete opposite of that one: Good.
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