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 Lucas is at it again

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Cruel Angel
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:53 am

Ronpur wrote:


If someone else wants to alter his or anyone's movie, without his consent, then that can not be condoned. That is what he was talking about in 1988, with issues such as colorizing old classic B&W films for TV.

Having said that,HAN FIRES FIRST!!

But he also made this one:

A copyright is held in trust by its owner until it ultimately reverts to public domain. American works of art belong to the American public; they are part of our cultural history.

People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an exercise of power are barbarians...


2011 Lucas is exercising his power yet again to make changes to works that 1988 Lucas said should be held protected in trust until it reverts to public domain.

Doing what he has been doing since the SE's came out- he has the right to legally yes... but he has to live with the impression that gives to the public that made him what he is. With those statements getting out in the news now, it just makes him even more of a hypocrite.

I'm sure he could care less though.

And yes, Han fired first.




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Ronpur
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:00 am

Well, to me,he still seams to be referring to another altering an artists work. And seriously, I have NEVER considered Star Wars to be a work of Art. Just a over blown Saturday morning serial,it is not Citizen Kane, or Metropolis!
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:01 pm

Ronpur wrote:
Well, to me,he still seams to be referring to another altering an artists work. And seriously, I have NEVER considered Star Wars to be a work of Art. Just a over blown Saturday morning serial,it is not Citizen Kane, or Metropolis!

FRIEND!!! What a Face



Anyhow, considering how Lucas keeps changing things to the point that the fans are pretty much calling him every four letter word around, he might want to stop and think, seeing that he's turning off many, many fans. Without those fans, he would have just been another director in Hollywood.....and I have only one word to describe his success.





Lucky.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:26 pm

Cruel Angel wrote:
squishy wrote:
Cruel Angel wrote:
jaredofmo wrote:
Lucas needs to stop re-mining Star Wars, IMO. Do something NEW.

I think he's been tapped out since the 80s, outside of Indy Jones.

Didn't you see the 4th Indy film? The man was out of good ideas when he did that one. Lots of recycle mixed with just dumb. I saw it at the Dollar Theatre and still felt ripped off.

Unfortunately, I did see that one when it came out. Only thing I thought they got right was the chemistry between Indy and Marion.

Agreed, but the proper ordering from best to least entertaining Indiana Jones is 1, 3, 2, 4.

Cruel Angel wrote:
Everything else he did in the 80s on up... ick.

What? Harrison Ford may be getting on in years, but he's still entertaining. Laughing

And George Lucas did good work before Star Wars with things like American Graffiti. Trying something new may help his legacy more than fiddling with the Star Wars movies over and over and over again.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:29 pm

I just found out that that Lak Sivrak had been deleted from the cantina since the first special edition. NNNNOOOOOO!!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:53 pm

As for proper ordering of any films, that's going to be up to the individual. I rate them (IJ) as 3, 1, 4, 2.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate ToD, but I'd rate some episodes of YIJC above it.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:43 pm

squishy wrote:


Cruel Angel wrote:
Everything else he did in the 80s on up... ick.

What? Harrison Ford may be getting on in years, but he's still entertaining. Laughing


That wasn't targeted at Harrison. That was Lucas' film work I was referring to.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:47 pm

Calixar wrote:
As for proper ordering of any films, that's going to be up to the individual. I rate them (IJ) as 3, 1, 4, 2.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate ToD, but I'd rate some episodes of YIJC above it.

And for me, I go 2, 1, 3. Razz 4 doesn't exist for me.

Loved Temple of Doom when I first watched it, and I didn't get where all the complaints were coming from. Then again, I love horror and I appreciated the darker tone. Besides, Short Round was hilarious.
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The Castellan
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:01 pm

Hated Short Round. Seems in the 80's, every popular character series had to have that one, annoying character.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:06 pm

Calixar wrote:
As for proper ordering of any films, that's going to be up to the individual. I rate them (IJ) as 3, 1, 4, 2.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate ToD, but I'd rate some episodes of YIJC above it.


Young Indiana Jones! I love that series, and many of them are as good as the movies, especially the war years. Very dramatic stuff in the trenches.

3 is my favorite, Sean Connery! The 1 and 2 and 4 are about the same to me. Hopefully 5 will be back up there with 3 or 1. I wish they had been able to do a 4 movie back in the 90s, it could have been set in WW2.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:07 pm

The Castellan wrote:
Hated Short Round. Seems in the 80's, every popular character series had to have that one, annoying character.

At least he wasn't a cute robot!
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:10 pm

The Castellan wrote:
Ronpur wrote:
Well, to me,he still seams to be referring to another altering an artists work. And seriously, I have NEVER considered Star Wars to be a work of Art. Just a over blown Saturday morning serial,it is not Citizen Kane, or Metropolis!

FRIEND!!! What a Face



Anyhow, considering how Lucas keeps changing things to the point that the fans are pretty much calling him every four letter word around, he might want to stop and think, seeing that he's turning off many, many fans. Without those fans, he would have just been another director in Hollywood.....and I have only one word to describe his success.





Lucky.

Well, I actually like Saturday morning serials!! In fact,just got one of the Flash Gordon serials!
It is no secret,Star Wars was a tribute to those, I mean, just look at the titles!

I am not sure he actually is turning off that many fans. There is always a vocal group who think they can make better product, just like in Doctor Who fandom, but they never do. (Troops is not included in that!LOL)
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:34 pm

Ronpur wrote:

I am not sure he actually is turning off that many fans. There is always a vocal group who think they can make better product, just like in Doctor Who fandom, but they never do. (Troops is not included in that!LOL)

Yeah, the fans that are turned off are definitely not many comparatively... they are outnumbered by the mainstream casual fans that wouldn't know the changes unless you told them and the rabid legions of SW fans that will buy anything with the SW label on it no matter what.

The better product I think is the Expanded Universe series. Well, the Bantam run at least. Out of all that, there was only one trilogy I didn't like, and that was mainly because the author's writing style didn't sit well with me. Any of them would have been better as a followup movie trilogy than those prequels. Even many of the Marvel comic arcs.

In this case, it's not about wanting better product. It's wanting the original. Think Classic Coke instead of New Coke Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:23 am

this is worth a listen. Language advisory for those who might be offended.

Additions to the original trilogy are what got me out of Star Wars figure collecting. There was a point at which I felt like I owned, in figure form, almost every character that appeared in the films... and then came the Special Editions. Until George finds a way to digitally de-age, shrink and insert Hayden Christiansen into Episode I, I think we'll have new versions of the films every four years.
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The Castellan
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:58 am

Cruel Angel wrote:
Ronpur wrote:

I am not sure he actually is turning off that many fans. There is always a vocal group who think they can make better product, just like in Doctor Who fandom, but they never do. (Troops is not included in that!LOL)

Yeah, the fans that are turned off are definitely not many comparatively... they are outnumbered by the mainstream casual fans that wouldn't know the changes unless you told them and the rabid legions of SW fans that will buy anything with the SW label on it no matter what.

The better product I think is the Expanded Universe series. Well, the Bantam run at least. Out of all that, there was only one trilogy I didn't like, and that was mainly because the author's writing style didn't sit well with me. Any of them would have been better as a followup movie trilogy than those prequels. Even many of the Marvel comic arcs.

In this case, it's not about wanting better product. It's wanting the original. Think Classic Coke instead of New Coke Razz

Even with the 'secret ingredient'? Very Happy

The main problem I see is that He's going to so much hard work to make the main stream folks happy, and pretty much giving the one finger salute to the really devoted fans. Like with the dreadful Star Trek 2009.....sure...the casual folks will love it, but the devoted fans, like myself....felt it was Star Trek in name only, and that we're now doomed to lose good stories we've had in the 5 decades just to make joe six pack and plain jane go, "oooo, explosions and overused CGI!" And given the fact that the mainstream crowds have the attention span of a gold fish with alzheimers or George Bush doing long division. I'm no Star Wars fan by any means, but I can really understand the anger and frustration caused by what Turkey Neck Lucas is doing lately......it's like remaking Casablanca with Ben Afleck doing Bogart's role and Jack Black doing Greenstreet's role.

Just watch.....some moron in Hollywood is gonna read this and think this is a great idea, now. Rolling Eyes


Now an example of how something being altered in the right way was PBS remastering the original Star Trek. They did not really change anything drastically. They did the best they could to maintain the look and the feel of the original show, with the CGI Enterprise and effects they improved. And when doing totally new things, like designing ships featured in the stories, but were never seen or were shown only as a glowing blob on screen, they were careful to make it/them look like something feasible for the feel of the show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l44Xrsgonw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihgUn7DcNSw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP9Qttpgqjo

If Lucas would have done something akin to that, instead of pretty much changing things so drastically, the fans would not be so irritated. And, seeing as how he lives for money, he outta make a DVD set of the originals, pre 1997, and totally untouched, and make those available, they'd be one of his best sellers. I mean with the Doctor Who DVD's, one can watch the new effects version, or the originals. The 20th anniversary of the 1986 Transformers the Movie DVD set allowed one to watch both the fully restored, wide screen theatrical version, or the full screen, untouched one, akin to the VHS releases. Why Lucas can not ponder this concept is beyond me.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:21 am

The Castellan wrote:
Like with the dreadful Star Trek 2009.....sure...the casual folks will love it, but the devoted fans, like myself....felt it was Star Trek in name only

Actually, I was quite the hardcore Trekkie in my youth, before Voyager and Enterprise squandered my good will. I personally loved Star Trek 2009.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:47 am

Rust wrote:
The Castellan wrote:
Like with the dreadful Star Trek 2009.....sure...the casual folks will love it, but the devoted fans, like myself....felt it was Star Trek in name only

Actually, I was quite the hardcore Trekkie in my youth, before Voyager and Enterprise squandered my good will. I personally loved Star Trek 2009.

About the way I feel, except for "lens flare"! And I did enjoy a few of Enterprise's episodes.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:53 am

Cruel Angel wrote:
Ronpur wrote:

I am not sure he actually is turning off that many fans. There is always a vocal group who think they can make better product, just like in Doctor Who fandom, but they never do. (Troops is not included in that!LOL)

Yeah, the fans that are turned off are definitely not many comparatively... they are outnumbered by the mainstream casual fans that wouldn't know the changes unless you told them and the rabid legions of SW fans that will buy anything with the SW label on it no matter what.

The better product I think is the Expanded Universe series. Well, the Bantam run at least. Out of all that, there was only one trilogy I didn't like, and that was mainly because the author's writing style didn't sit well with me. Any of them would have been better as a followup movie trilogy than those prequels. Even many of the Marvel comic arcs.

In this case, it's not about wanting better product. It's wanting the original. Think Classic Coke instead of New Coke Razz


I really enjoy the Expanded Universe myself. I actually enjoyed Legacy of the Force,for trying to show that even with good intentions, the Dark Side will consume you. and I think Fate of the Jedi has some very good points, mainly the Skywalker storyline. I love the interaction between Luke and Ben. But it just has too much going on now.

But nothing beats X-wing, Rouge Squadron!

I still wish for movies set in the Old Republic. I am sure we would love to see some great Sith vrs. Jedi drama from the old days.

Oh,yes,New Coke was to Pepsi-like for me,LOL
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:32 am

Rust wrote:
The Castellan wrote:
Like with the dreadful Star Trek 2009.....sure...the casual folks will love it, but the devoted fans, like myself....felt it was Star Trek in name only

Actually, I was quite the hardcore Trekkie in my youth, before Voyager and Enterprise squandered my good will. I personally loved Star Trek 2009.

*Ahem* Excuse me, this hardcore Trekker for 40+ years loved the 2009 movie, too. Please don't assume we all think as you do on this and speak for all of us. Perhaps you could have said "some devoted fans..." My Trekker friends all liked it, as did most folks on the topic thread here...

Anyhow...back to Lucas...


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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:51 am

Ronpur wrote:


I really enjoy the Expanded Universe myself. I actually enjoyed Legacy of the Force,for trying to show that even with good intentions, the Dark Side will consume you. and I think Fate of the Jedi has some very good points, mainly the Skywalker storyline. I love the interaction between Luke and Ben. But it just has too much going on now.

But nothing beats X-wing, Rouge Squadron!

I still wish for movies set in the Old Republic. I am sure we would love to see some great Sith vrs. Jedi drama from the old days.


Legacy was the last I have gotten from the expanded universe.

I liked New Jedi Order, but they kind of ruined it for me when they retconned Vergere (I think that's his name) later to establish that he was actually evil and dark side. I thought his take on the nature of the Force was rather novel and a nice twist. From what I gathered, there was a fan outcry that it wasn't right, and that's why they changed it later on.

My big complaint about Legacy was that Jacen/ Caedus' s rise to power was practically the same step by step progression as Palpatine's. If they had varied it a bit more, it would have been easier for me to buy into as a storyline. I also thought Luke was rather dense about what was going on until it was too late. Of course, I'm biased since Mara is my favorite character.

The overall point that turned me off after the Bantam run of books was the retcon of the universe per the prequel continuity (which I hated) beginning to filter into the novels. Ive only gotten the ones that take place from Ep 4 onward, not the past ones.

I read that Aaron Allston will be doing a new Wraith Squadron book next year. Must get.

I'd love to see some Old Republic stuff. Back in the days of checking your blasters and lightsaber at the door Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:54 am

SeaDevil wrote:


*Ahem* Excuse me, this hardcore Trekker for 40+ years loved the 2009 movie, too. Please don't assume we all think as you do on this and speak for all of us. Perhaps you could have said "some devoted fans..." My Trekker friends all liked it, as did most folks on the topic thread here...


Yuppers! Watching it now Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:56 pm

Good point Mysterylad about comic books. Although, being the hardcore geek that I am, do You know how many lawsuits over the years there have been over comic books? Who created whom, who has property rights, etc. (Heck, Winnie the Pooh is actually owned by two different companies, and I bet most people don't know that. The Disney version, and the 'baby' version you see in stores in plush dolls).

Second point, to anyone who thinks that a Director/Writer gets everyone to "work" for them on a movie, I would have to ask how many movies you have worked on? More often than not, there are compromises, re-writes, edits. Things almost never go according to "plan".

C, Does anyone here notice that the only films that get 'tinkered' with, are films that were hits in the first place? I mean, I don't see George Lucas going back to Howard the Duck and adding in SFX or new actors, to make that a better movie (don't know if anything would). All the movies I brought up, like Blade Runner, was a hit before they started re-releasing it.

Fourth, and I think this is what most "hardcore fans" want is: WE don't mind if Lucas edits/adds, re-arranges. All we want is the OPTION to see the original. You know, the thing that was the hit in the first place. The thing that made him all the money that he is using to alter the thing (yes, even I'm confused now). We just want what was there in the first place. If I had my way with the blu ray, you could watch the original (green square tie fighters), the enhanced (no green squares, better graphics), the special editions, and even the new "lucas just messed with everything" version.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:10 pm

bret_owen99 wrote:
WE don't mind if Lucas edits/adds, re-arranges. All we want is the OPTION to see the original.

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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:11 pm

Calixar wrote:
bret_owen99 wrote:
WE don't mind if Lucas edits/adds, re-arranges. All we want is the OPTION to see the original.


And it's just that simple Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:35 pm

Calixar wrote:
bret_owen99 wrote:
WE don't mind if Lucas edits/adds, re-arranges. All we want is the OPTION to see the original.


Agreed completely.

EDIT: Oh, and on another forum I go to I decided to draw up my own vision of the Star Wars prequel trilogy. Have a laugh:


Episode One (Echoes of the Force): Obi-Wan is off on some mission (No Padawan nonsense or Qui-Gon "Reckless Endangerment" Jin), throw in Padme as a Princess of Aldaraan (I liked that suggestion), but far enough removed from the line of succession to being kind of a restless youth. Both paths cross as Obi-Wan is investigating rumors of Dark Side activity and Padme is suspicious of her father's senator friend Palpatine. Obi-Wan and Padme end up stranded on Tatooine, on the run from Sith agents (Not Darth Maul. Just Bounty Hunters and the like) and run into Anakin Skywalker and Owen Lars, who run a tramp freighter business. Both are crass, but Anakin seems to have a mean streak in him, working over a late paying client with a loose piece of pipe out of the sight of the others. Obi-Wan senses something about Anakin, and the four escape Tatoonie aboard Skywalker's ship (Which could be the Millennium Falcon). Movie ends with Padme discovering evidence of Palpatine in league with the Hutts, which discredits him, while Anakin, Owen, and Obi-Wan fend off a "pirate" squadron utilizing old Sith starships. Anakin distinguishes himself as a pilot in the fight, and Obi-Wan tries to convince Anakin to come with him to study the ways of the Force. Anakin refuses and leaves with Owen.

Episode Two(Fate of the Republic): Palpatine - a discredited senator - is stirring up dissension among the Republic's client systems and poor underclass. He argues how a democratic society as the Republic can have aristocratic families who rule it. Obi-Wan is sent back to Tatooine to look into the separatist movement and runs into Anakin and Owen again. The freighter business went bust on them between movies and they were forced to sell their ship. Owen is trying to convince Anakin to become a Moisture Farmer, but Anakin sees Obi-Wan as a way to improve his situation and takes Obi-Wan's offer to learn the ways of the Force. The three eventually stumble upon Padme, who is on Tatooine helping her brother with his shipping business as she's still restless. She teases Anakin and Owen that they're the ones who got her interested in shipping in the first place, and she and Anakin start up a rapport. The Hutts gain intel on the group and then sell it to Palpatine, who recognizes Padme as the one who outed his corruption and caused his fall from grace. It's also in this movie we learn Palpatine's motives - he is in fact a Force User like Obi-Wan, but one who was fascinated by the Dark Side and has been secretly rebuilding the Sith Empire for decades. In preparation for the eventual rise of the Empire, Palpatine has been using illegal cloning technology and gaining samples of every Jedi Knight in the Empire - breeding a vast army of cloned Jedi trained in the ways of the Dark Side of the Force. Our heroes discover this plan, but are too late to prevent Palpatine from releasing his New Sith Army upon the Republic. Anakin engaging Palpatine in a fight, but his fledgling Force powers are not enough to stand against Palpatine. At the film's end, Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Padme go to take the fight into the Republic, while Owen stays behind to start up that Moisture Farm.

Episode 3 (Rise of the Empire): "The Clone Wars" have raged for nearly three years, with Jedi Knights facing their dark counterparts and Republican military running up against separatist movements armed with Sith technology. Where once Jedi were counted as trusted guardians of the Republic, most view them with suspicion and distrust. Worst of all from the Jedi perspective, they can't be certain if their friends are who they say they are, leading to the majority fighting alone. Palpatine remains illusive, and Anakin chaffs under his patient, slow Jedi training when the galaxy is going up in flames around them. While fighting clones of his master, Anakin begins to discover how to harness the Force as a weapon by observing the dark copies. Obi-Wan, distressed at Anakin beginning to apply these observations to his own lessons, warns Anakin off the path but Anakin is a lightning fast student of the Dark Side, and by mid-film has changed his allegiance to Palpatine. In the chaos that the Republic has become with bombings, dark Jedi, and insecurity, Anakin leads some of Palpatine's Sith troops throughout the galaxy, purging any and all Jedi - both legitimate and dark side copy - he comes across, earning the name Darth Vader. The Empire and Palpatine step into the vacuum the Republic leaves behind, painting itself not as a conquering invader, but a benevolent re-alignment of the Republic's stated goals. Eventually, the only Jedi left in the galaxy are those that were either in seclusion to begin with, or those that have chosen to stand in the path of the Empire with the remaining Republic forces. During this time, Anakin pursues his desire for Padme and ends up using a Mind Trick to consummate their relationship - an act tantamount to rape. Obi-Wan confronts Anakin and the two square off as the remaining Republic Forces make their last stand against the Empire. In the end, Obi-Wan wins out over Anakin and he ends up mortally wounded. Obi-Wan takes Padme and the two flee to Aldaraan while Anakin gains the trademark Life Support system. With the Republic in tatters, the Empire assumes control of the galaxy, with a handful of remaining Republican units becoming a Rebellion. Nine months later, Obi-Wan is tasked by Padme to carry her son away from Aldaraan, less Vader discover the fact he has children. Obi-Wan - bitter and broken over the loss of both the Republic and the utter destruction of the Jedi Order (So shamed has it become that the populace finds it and the exploits of the Knights a 'joke' - just as Palpatine had intended). - agrees and leaves without realizing Padme had actually given birth to two children.
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