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 Lucas is at it again

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Rust
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PostSubject: Lucas is at it again   Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:54 pm

Here's the Link

It also contains a YouTube video of the "leaked" addition. For those curious, effectively it turns Vader's wordless self-sacrifice at the end of Episode VI and gives him Dialogue - him saying "No."

I have to honestly ask why? That's one of the pivotal moments of the franchise, and it's made all the more powerful by the fact Vader doesn't choreograph his motivations. For a first time viewer, there's an honest wonder if Vader will intervene on his son's behalf. Him uttering "No." just destroys that.

But more to the point...if Lucas has enough time to tinker with pre-established scenes like this, does that mean he's finally gotten around to fixing Obi-Wan's Light Saber effect in Episode IV? That has bugged me since I was a little kid, and despite all the CGI additions and corrections, it's never been fixed.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:02 pm

He lost me when he messed around and made the Special Editions.

It wouldn't be as bad if he would put out the original untouched versions, but it seems every time he changes something, he wants whatever came before to be forgotten.

I was chatting with a friend of mine the other night talking about this (and yes, we both will not be getting the blu's because of the omission of the theatrical cuts). He brought up a good comparison.

Here Ridley Scott put Blade Runner out on blu. Does he have what he feels is the 'real' cut? Yes, but he put the other versions of the film in that release too. Everybody wins.

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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:07 pm

There's more horror to unlock on YouTube. He's given the Ewoks CG Eyelids.

And his latest DVD release of the series did come with untouched versions of the film...crappy Laserdisc Transfers.

Honestly, I'm just not going to buy Star Wars on DVD until after Lucas kicks the bucket. I think that's the only way we're going to get a re-release of the untouched versions of the films.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:12 pm

He's also changed the sound Obi-wan makes in Ep IV to scare off the Tuskens when they're attacking Luke.

I'll stick with my VHS copies of the theatrical versions, thank you.

Han fired first!
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:15 pm

Cinema died on the day he decided to mess around with the classics. He then went on to rub salt in our wounds with Jar Jar Binks!
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:18 pm

Rust wrote:
There's more horror to unlock on YouTube. He's given the Ewoks CG Eyelids.

And his latest DVD release of the series did come with untouched versions of the film...crappy Laserdisc Transfers.

Honestly, I'm just not going to buy Star Wars on DVD until after Lucas kicks the bucket. I think that's the only way we're going to get a re-release of the untouched versions of the films.

Yeah, i just LOVED those laserdisc ports. Not anamorphic either. The jerk.

But I got them anyway since I didn't have my VHSs anymore. And the way it's going, likely that will be the only versions I still have, unless like you say Lucas kicks it and someone else gets it done.

Or he just sits on them until he runs out of the double dips... he has these blus, then will release them in 3D blu once the 3D versions are done in the theaters. Then maybe he finally puts them out to ensure sales on his last double dip grab.

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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:25 pm

I remember that line he fed about having "erased" the original master copies (Despite the fact the Smithsonian has them in the National Archive...).

I'm beginning to wonder if he's not hiding them in his double chin. Seriously, that thing is terrifying! I mean, I'm not exactly a one chin wonder but GAH! It looks like he swallowed Mark Hamill's head.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:21 pm

"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"

that's all i've been saying to george lucas since: the special editions, jar jar binks, the clone wars, episodes 1, 2 and 3.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:49 pm

This always puts me in the minority on this subject, but I really don't care that Lucas keeps tinkering with the films.

They're HIS FILMS.


Yes, yes, they're an important part of pop culture and they mean something to all of us, but the bizarre sense of entitlement leading some fans to demonize Lucas for never being satisfied with his cinematic children is beyond me.

They're HIS films. He can play with them all he wants until he's satisfied...heck, even if he's never satisfied. It's his universe; the audience just gets to visit it now and then.

I don't need to preserve the Star Wars films; that childhood wonder lives on in my memory. And I will never be seven again, but as long as Lucas keeps Star Wars alive and keeps updating it to make it palatable to future generations, new seven year olds will keep falling in love with it. And THAT is the goal...not treating as sacred the memories of a graying fandom.

They're HIS FILMS.

Flame away. It'll be easy, 'cause I won't bother arguing. I know I'm the heretic when it comes to this particular topic. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:12 pm

I can see where you're coming from, but I am of the opinion that no matter what a director wants to do, the original version should be available for comparison's sake at least, letting the viewer decide for themselves which version is definitive to them.

Peter Weir re-cut his film Picnic at Hanging Rock in 1998, removing some footage he felt slowed down the story, and this new cut was the only version available for ten years. Even the Criterion Collection had it as their version on DVD. Finally, a Region 2 version came out in 2008 and offered a slightly battered print of the original version as a bonus feature. Yes, I could agree with his idea that the scenes slowed down the film, but I enjoyed having both available to me.

At any rate, I saw the laserdisc DVDs of the original versions of Star Wars from Netflix about three years ago and didn't have a problem with how the films looked at all. (The whole "force" thing in the second one completely lost me, though...)
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:15 pm

mysterylad wrote:

They're HIS FILMS.

They are his films and he's free to do with them as he pleases.

However, I also think it's not right that he deny the original vision that made the films a success in the first place. All I want are high quality releases of the original films, no alterations made save the earliest - where he put "Episode IV" in the opening crawl.

Matter of fact, I'd probably enjoy these re-edits and alterations a lot more if they weren't appearently over writing the original.

Blade Runner did it best, in my opinion. It released all three versions of the film in a single release, and let the fans decide which one was their preference.


The fact Lucas wants to deny the originals even existed is what bugs me and makes me opposed to further alteration. The man took what for its time was a visually stunning masterpiece that transformed the special effects industry and turned into into a cluttered, lifeless "Plays with CGI Engine" affairs that, oddly, seem to be in the business of absolutely destroying perfectly fine moments of the film. While replacing the band in Jabba's palace with CG actors was fine (They were weak looking to begin with, let's be honest), totally redoing the musical number so that the music doesn't fit the scene at all just destroys that sequence. Same with altering the ending song on Endor. Yeah, it's far more grand and epic, but again...the music doesn't match the pre-existing visuals.

This is akin to Van Gough touching up A Starry Night using Hot Pink and Bright Orange.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:50 pm

I hear you. I just tend to believe art is the artist's to do with as he pleases, and if in his lifetime Van Gough had decided that's what Starry Night needed, that's Van Gough's call.

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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:02 pm

mysterylad wrote:
I hear you. I just tend to believe art is the artist's to do with as he pleases, and if in his lifetime Van Gough had decided that's what Starry Night needed, that's Van Gough's call.

I hear you, and understand, and mostly agree.

But if, say, Paul McCartney went and redid the Sgt Peppers album, and covered up a bunch of horn sections with modern synths and changed a few lyrics, then made it extremely difficult for me to be able to hear the originals on anything but an 8-track cassette, I'd be furious.

Lots of artists have updated their work over the years, but they always give the consumer/audience the choice to view the originals. Even Doctor Who, with the updated FX on some DVD's, we're given the choice which version we want to see. That's all we're really complaining about.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:19 pm

rdks wrote:
Lots of artists have updated their work over the years, but they always give the consumer/audience the choice to view the originals. Even Doctor Who, with the updated FX on some DVD's, we're given the choice which version we want to see. That's all we're really complaining about.

That's fair enough. But even that might be asking a bit much in today's economy and retail marketplace.

I remember when Jimmy Page caught flak for adding new guitar bits to the Led Zeppelin remasters back in the '90s. Of course, the original recordings still existed. They weren't available in the nice new format of compact disc, but they still existed.

The original Star Wars films still exist, they just aren't available in the nice new format of Blu-ray. Even Lucasfilm's resources are finite. If George wants to allocate his resources wisely, he isn't going to sink money into creating new digital transfers of films he considers no longer relevant (and sadly, to today's youth audience, those old effects would in fact render the films irrelevant).

Of course, he could include them as special features on the Blu-ray releases, but that would add another disc or three to the set, raising the price point beyond the casual consumer's reach...a real issue in today's retail marketplace.

So, it doesn't make sense for Lucas in either the creative sense or the business sense to add the original films back into the mix, especially when, like the original Zeppelin recordings, the originals are still out there...they just aren't in the newest format.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:30 pm

mysterylad wrote:
If George wants to allocate his resources wisely

Gotta stop there.

You do know George is sprucing up all the movies for release in 3D, correct? That's to come after this round of Blu-Ray Disks, after which will come 3D home releases, with likely alterations made to every one of them.

I don't think Lucas is much concerned with allocating his resources, he just wants to see how long fans of the franchise will be willing to shill out dough. He's running his own flagship creation into the ground for the sake of money.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:46 am

There was once a good and wise man. Then, in his place, stood evil. Will the good man return one day, to bring balance to the force? I don't know, all I know is that i no longer see George Lucas, all I see is Darth Lucas.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:00 am

If Lucas wanted to do it, it would happen. He knows there is a good sized contingent of SW fans out there that want the theatricals. The ones that are refusing to buy anything more unless it's the originals, plus all the ones that are buying now, but would happily buy those versions too.

Rust's view of Lucas running his flagship into the planet for repeated cash grabs is how I've been seeing it. He hasn't done anything good since Indy Jones ended. (Don't even start on what him and Spielberg did to Indy Jones with that 4th movie... yet another franchise killed).

He knows there are enough rabid SW fans out there that are going to keep shelling out money for anything with the SW tag on it. He's gonna keep doing it because it keeps working for him. Kinda like Microsoft with a new version of Windows and Office every 2-3 years. You will have the people that want the latest version of everything- massive cash influx at those release times. Yes, you have others that will not see the point of getting something when the new bells and whistles arent that compelling and they are used to what they have had in the past... but MS stops supporting those older versions, so eventually if you want to keep up, you will have to upgrade at some point. Again, easy money for them.

Yes, it's his work... but if I was any sort of artist that hit the big time and eventually made billions based off of a work not too long after first starting out-

I would feel very nostalgic about that work and respect it, even though after more years of experience there might be some things I wish I had done differently.

I would be very appreciative for all the fans that loved that work and enabled me to be that successful.

Yes, I could see updating the FX for the current generation. Content, no. Those would be easy changes to make back in the day. But even if i wanted to change some things, my respect for the original would not have me want to wipe out all memory or existence of it. That work was what put me in a position to make all these big and bad changes... not putting out the old version disrespects those people that made you successful, and with so much demand for it, it doesn't even make sense from a purely profit and business sense either.

He's running out of options to keep his flagship up... 3D is it, unless he actually gets the SW tv series going and it's actually good. Then he can gravy train all the toy licensing from that too... then put it out on blu ray, wait a couple of years, then 3D...

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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:22 am

Lucas needs to come up with new SW films instead of beating a dead Bantha. Obviously, the guy is looking for more money to get new projects off the ground.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:26 am

jfh1970 wrote:
Lucas needs to come up with new SW films instead of beating a dead Bantha. Obviously, the guy is looking for more money to get new projects off the ground.

We'll see if they can ever get the SW tv series out there. Supposedly they have what... 2 seasons worth of scripts done already... but they say the series would be too expensive to produce right now?

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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:29 am

Lucas needs to stop re-mining Star Wars, IMO. Do something NEW.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:34 am

jaredofmo wrote:
Lucas needs to stop re-mining Star Wars, IMO. Do something NEW.

I think he's been tapped out since the 80s, outside of Indy Jones.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:40 am

Rust wrote:
mysterylad wrote:
If George wants to allocate his resources wisely

Gotta stop there.

You do know George is sprucing up all the movies for release in 3D, correct? That's to come after this round of Blu-Ray Disks, after which will come 3D home releases, with likely alterations made to every one of them..

OK, so you want to put the whole set on hold until he's finished that wave of revisions? That would be met with just as much gnashing of teeth from fandom, especially since most people don't yet do 3D at home anyway. Of course, fandom is ALWAYS griping about something, because that's what we do.

Bottom line: the average fan needs to take a deep breath and realize he/she doesn't HAVE to buy anything they don't want to. Complaining about stuff like this is silly and makes us all sound like grumbling, gray-haired children.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:05 am

mysterylad wrote:
Complaining about stuff like this is silly and makes us all sound like grumbling, gray-haired children.

So says the folically challenged man in the picture!! Smile Very Happy Razz

He obviously has an "ideal" vision for the saga. Releasing the movies in every single format obviously goes towards paying for that. Personally, I wish he would have left 4, 5 & 6 alone & should have received a round house kick for Jar Jar Binks! Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:34 am

mysterylad wrote:

OK, so you want to put the whole set on hold until he's finished that wave of revisions?

No, I fail to see why constant revisions are necessary. He had plenty of opportunity to add these little bits in when he first started tinkering with his accidental masterpiece.

But again, the core complaint I have is that throughout all of this, Lucas steadfastly refuses to provide high quality copies of the original. Yes, I can find said copies in older formats but those formats continue to get older, and Lucas is determined to bury those originals the same way he tries to bury the Star Wars Christmas Special.
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PostSubject: Re: Lucas is at it again   Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:42 pm

Rust wrote:
...Lucas is determined to bury those originals the same way he tries to bury the Star Wars Christmas Special.

Dude, if it had been your idea, wouldn't YOU wanna bury the Star Wars Xmas Special? Wink

I can see why this bugs you. Still, being a writer and an artist, I find myself looking back at my earlier work and wishing I could change it. I get where Lucas is coming from. The flaws in one's previous work can really chafe. When it comes to Star Wars, Lucas has said on numerous occasions that the rough spots in Star Wars (based on limitations in technology, time, and money) really grate on him. He may sincerely want to erase the embarassment they represent to him...and that's his right. It's a common desire among creative people. The problem here is that the artist's work has been embraced by the audience to such a degree that they think of it as theirs and want it preserved in an updated format, but sans alteration.
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