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 313: Last of the Timelords

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Rate This Episode
Fantastic!
34%
 34% [ 10 ]
Pretty Good
24%
 24% [ 7 ]
Average
14%
 14% [ 4 ]
Disappointing
17%
 17% [ 5 ]
Horrible
10%
 10% [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 29
 

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Nuggan
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PostSubject: Re: 313: Last of the Timelords   Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:03 pm

bret_owen99 wrote:
Nuggan, i'm sticking with the face of boe reveal. i know they've tried to reverse the policy on it, but i still think they should explain it at some point. i always thought a wierd way to explain it would be for an alien race to try to capture captain jack to study his immortality, but torchwood fights them off, but they do manage to cut off his head/slice his face off. then, like he always does, he grows a new one. so the face of boe could be his head(with memmories and everything), but the captain jack we know still exists(sort of like splitting a worm in two).

I like it! That's fancier than my "his body got so old that they had to pickle his head and he died because there was to much damage for him to renew himeslf" idea.
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Rust
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PostSubject: Re: 313: Last of the Timelords   Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:36 pm

I really, really was disappointed with this. I knew things were getting rocky with "The Sound of Drums", because it was an 'impossible situation', but if "A Parting of Ways" was a bit deus ex machina and "Journey's End" relied on a lot of conveniences in the plot, then "Last of the Time Lords" just made it up as they went along.

Honestly, it's as if RTD wrote "Utopia" and "The Sound of Drums" and discovered he'd ended up writing himself into a corner, with nowhere to go with the story. He then popped in any random piece of Animation coming out of Asia, learned the concept of "Burning Courage" and decided to adapt it to a Western market. Cept, nobody told him that "Burning Courage" never will be taken seriously.

I really can't fault John Simms here, simply because he's not given anything to work with. The Master is just a flat out ranting loon who has, for reasons of his own, allowed multiple people who hate his guts to just walk free. That's not even getting started on the barely-there plot of he and his wife. Who outside an easily missed appearance with a black eye, you'd never understand why she was backing the Doctor or shot him in the first place.

What really infuriates me most is that, as a whole, Season Three is absolutely brilliant. I don't think there's a poor episode in the batch, and then we got to "The Sound of Drums"/"The Last of the Time Lords" and the whole thing falls apart. Even the build up to the Saxon/Master reveal was done brilliantly throughout the season!

And RTD dropped the ball, simple as that. Set to deliver a knockout thirteen well crafted episodes, only to choke at the final minute.
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bret_owen99
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PostSubject: Re: 313: Last of the Timelords   Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:55 pm

wow, rust. this is actually my favorite series ender in the rtd era. i don't see as much "deus ex machina" in this one, as i see in every other series ender by davies. i loved how both the master and the doctor used the human race to achieve what they needed(the master using the toclafane, and the doctor using them to give him godlike powers). i enjoyed seeing martha's family in service to the master(since they were paying for martha's crime of knowing the doctor). i really liked the false ending about half-way through with the laser screwdriver.

this episode, along with utopia and the sound of drums, to me, is almost the real "tv movie". it's three episodes that back to back make the longest modern day story of who. i've watched them more than any other series story. sorry you don't like "burning courage", but i guess since i don't watch anime, i'm not burned out on the concept.
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Rust
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PostSubject: Re: 313: Last of the Timelords   Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:16 pm

It's no biggie. It's just the resolution seemed so...cheap, to me. Maybe it's because Tennant spent so much of the final episode under makeup (Brilliantly done makeup, I might add. A lot better "Old Man" Makeup then the stuff used on Lazarus, at any rate) or replaced by a Smurf Gollum, so you didn't really get to see his reactions (Though can that man act with just his eyes. Wowzah.)

The Toclafane also somewhat bothered me, since Yana constructed a starship drive out of scrap food and string, and the Technology available to Humanity seemed so primitive in "Utopia", it just struck me as strange that Humanity somehow had the technical might and industrial base to transform themselves into Toclafane in the first place. But that's an extremely minor nitpick.


I think me being so burnt out with "Burning Courage" type stories (My late High School and College Years were consumed by Anime binges) that made me take such a intense dislike to the finale. But hey, I absolutely adored all the other episodes, so it's not like I didn't get my money's worth.
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bret_owen99
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PostSubject: Re: 313: Last of the Timelords   Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:18 pm

see rust, that's where we saw things differently. i never saw it as people turned themselves into toclafane, but that the master did it. he used technology he found in our time(he is a genius, so i can stretch my imagination and see him creating the spheres out of anything we have here) and took the toclafane back through time. but i always thought he was the one who turned us into flying heads of death. that just seemed like something he would do.
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Rust
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PostSubject: Re: 313: Last of the Timelords   Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:23 pm

Cept, I thought the Master said he found them like that. After the dream of Utopia didn't pan out, in their blind panic at facing the Heat Death of the Universe they turned themselves into Toclafane to try an escape it. It's fairly well established that the reason the Toclafane came back into their own past was to escape. The female Toclafane seems pretty panicky about "The Darkness" which is fast approaching in "The Sound of Drums".

All the Master did was name them.
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bret_owen99
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PostSubject: Re: 313: Last of the Timelords   Sat Jul 17, 2010 9:48 pm

could be. i may have just filled in the blanks with what i thought worked out best. would the master cut off people's heads, shove them in a metal bucket with lazer's and knives? yeah, i thought so. may not have been rtd's intention, but i thought it would make more sense, seeing as how the master was their salvation. like before he showed up, they were just fighting each other(cannibalizing). but after he turned them into the tocalafane, he gave them a purpose.
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Calixar
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PostSubject: Re: 313: Last of the Timelords   Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:35 pm

Watching this on BBCA... it still bothers me that Winters refers to himself as 'President Elect.'
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bret_owen99
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PostSubject: Re: 313: Last of the Timelords   Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:54 pm

Really Calixar? Have you heard the actor's (tennant, barrowman, and freema) commentary on the episode? It's supposed to be Bush, and if you noticed, when time got reset, he was still dead. In all fairness to RTD, he got on Obama during The End of Time as well.
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Calixar
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PostSubject: Re: 313: Last of the Timelords   Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:34 pm

No... the term he used... "President Elect" means he's been elected but not inaugurated yet... he's not the President yet.

RTD admited to it being a mistake. They didn't realize what the term meant.
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bret_owen99
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PostSubject: Re: 313: Last of the Timelords   Sat Sep 17, 2011 1:59 pm

Ah, ok. I thought it was just another dig at Bush (since in recent memmory, he was the only "President Elect" I can think of).
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Ronpur
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PostSubject: Re: 313: Last of the Timelords   Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:24 pm

Well,Obama was President Elect from the day after Election Day in November 2008 until January 20, 2009.
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bret_owen99
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PostSubject: Re: 313: Last of the Timelords   Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:45 pm

Yes, Ronpur, but you know what I meant. He didn't have someone challenging him for the office (and not to get too much into politics here, but Gore did have that right. Not that he won, but I'm all for recounts and challenges.)
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Ronpur
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PostSubject: Re: 313: Last of the Timelords   Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:49 pm

Oh,I actually didn't think you knew what the term meant..(oops)...never mind. That event didn't even cross my mind. I am from Florida,and I have tried to forget that every political lawyer in the country showed up here to try to change the rules our state had set for election challenges up after the fact.
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