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 S6E7: A Good Man Goes To War

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Rust
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PostSubject: Re: S6E7: A Good Man Goes To War   Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:47 pm

bret_owen99 wrote:
i thought they said "you will break the silence" which made more sense to me, but i couldn't understand a word the silence said anyways.

I thought it was "You Will Bring the Silence".

Which actually makes me wonder. The Vampire Fish talked about looking through the cracks and seeing nothing but Silence. The Alliance noted the Cracks came from a detonation of the TARDIS and thus wanted to imprison the Doctor since he was the only person who could pilot the TARDIS.

River was on the TARDIS when it detonated. Her exact last words before the detonation were "I'm sorry my love."

Did...Did River intentionally blow up the TARDIS to bring the Silence into the universe?

...

MY MIND!
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PostSubject: Re: S6E7: A Good Man Goes To War   Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:17 pm

rmlextreme wrote:
The Silence were working for Eye Patch lady.

I think its probably the other way round. I bet the silence are mind influencing eyepatch lady and her gang - it would atleast explain her lack of motive for trying to destroy the doctor. Also, if I remember right, Matt Smith has called the silence the "big bad" for this series.
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PostSubject: Re: S6E7: A Good Man Goes To War   Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:46 am

Didn't have a chance to watch this until last night, but I loved it though.

As soon as I saw the name of Amy's baby, I knew right away who River was and had kind of a theory that was the case back in The Impossible Astronaut.

Perhaps I'm wrong (nothing new of course) but when Moffat keeps talking about this being a "Game Changing" episode and series and it will change the way we view The Doctor, I'm wondering if perhaps he means he's going to un-deify him a bit, which I rather hope he does.

As the show continued on when it was brought back in 2005, they would continue to present examples where The Doctor is feared and/or revered throughout the Universe. He's become a kind of legend or a mythological figure that races tell stories about to each other. We've seen examples where he's simply faced an adversary, said "Hi, I'm The Doctor" and they would s#!+ themselves and run away.

Now I don't know about you, but this doesn't make for a compelling hero to me. Much as I love Tennant and Smith, I think The Doctor has become way TOO powerful and cocky. As if he can simply snap his fingers and make an alien battle fleet explode. And don't get me started on his magic wan...I mean Sonic Screwdriver.

I'm wondering if at the end of all this, The Doctor will be brought down to Earth a little more, and to be honest I'm hoping he will.

Col Runaway's "he's not a God, he's a living, breathing man" speech that he gives to the Clerics, felt more like a commentary by Moffat himself to the viewers that he felt The Doctor had become too much of an unstoppable force of nature, rather than simply a curious, adventure seeking eccentric, which is what I like about him best.

Back in the Classic Series, I never got the impression that The Doctor was some kind of demi-god capable of bringing down empires with a wink. To me, he was just a mischievous guy, weary of the strictures of Gallifreyan society, who stole a TARDIS so he could knock about the Universe and see cool stuff. We still got much of that sense in the current series, but he's become too powerful. He used the TARDIS to lasso the Earth and tow it back into position for heaven's sake.

In this episode, we saw the "Rise higher than he ever has" (sort of), but I didn't get the "fall farther than he's ever fallen" that River spoke of, he really seemed pretty happy at the end. Will the conclusion of this arc result in an event that will shake his friends and companions confidence in him? Will the Universe no longer fear his "wrath" should they cross him? Will his enemies be not as easy to defeat?
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PostSubject: Re: S6E7: A Good Man Goes To War   Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:21 pm

Clavius, that is an excellent idea, and I hope it is right. The only time the legend of the Doctor may have began to creep in in the classic series was with 7, and that did not have a chance to get explored.
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PostSubject: Re: S6E7: A Good Man Goes To War   Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:45 pm

I think what you have to realize is the doctor was changed after the time war. Thats why hes wrote differently now, hes old, hes wise and hes killed millions. He isn't the same old doctor as before anymore.
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PostSubject: Re: S6E7: A Good Man Goes To War   Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:31 pm

That's the thing though, the Doctor has changed - but as River suggests, not exactly for the better. Remember what he did to the Silence simply for Kidnapping and their Parasitic Nature? I mean, yeah, the Silence are evil but I don't think they deserve total genocide.
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PostSubject: Re: S6E7: A Good Man Goes To War   Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:04 pm

Like hes said in the past. He use to be young and have so much pity but hes gotten old and its gone.
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PostSubject: Re: S6E7: A Good Man Goes To War   Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:46 pm

Clavius wrote:
lCol Runaway's "he's not a God, he's a living, breathing man" speech that he gives to the Clerics, felt more like a commentary by Moffat himself to the viewers that he felt The Doctor had become too much of an unstoppable force of nature, rather than simply a curious, adventure seeking eccentric...
I have to disagree with you, Clavius. I feel Moffat has done more to deify him even further. He's the one who introduced the whole "I'm the Doctor, now run away" gimmick you mentioned, and he's done it 3 times now!

He's made the Doctor seem to almost have superpowers. And the last episode was one the worst for this. Dropping Rory off in the main control area of a massive Cyberman fleet then destroying the entire fleet in seconds without them knowing he was even there. That's the act of an extremely powerful being (either that or the Cybermen are incredibly weak). It makes me wonder why he bothers running around corridors and fire escapes when he can just do this.

Then there's the fact that between what Dorian said and what River said, almost everyone in the universe knows who he is and either fears him or has some ancient legend about him. It's just gone way to far for me. I liked the Doctor that showed up and saved the day and disappeared again leaving only about 3 people who even knew he was there, and they had no idea who he was.

His companions have such faith in him they will walk into said control room with no fear, just because he told them to. And when they're being held captive, they just sit there all "ho-hum", completely unafraid of the bad guys, and keep saying "Oh, the Doctor's going to rescue me, and when he does, you're going to be sorry.". And I can't really blame them. There is no longer any reason for companions or viewers to fear any adversary when they can just be blown up on a whim, or just told to run away and they do.

And to top it all of, he has the ability to "reboot" the entire universe! That practically makes him the most powerful being in all of creation. No other being has that power. But Moffat's Doctor does.

Now I know my opinion is a little jaded since I have nothing but disdain for everything Moffat does, but I do feel the Doctor has become more of a "god" than ever before. And judging from the spoilers I've read for the next half of the season, it's going to go even further down that road.



Last edited by rdks on Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: S6E7: A Good Man Goes To War   Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:47 pm

Rocco wrote:
Like hes said in the past. He use to be young and have so much pity but hes gotten old and its gone.

That was "Lonely God" Ten. Eleven's worked through most of his survivor's guilt.
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PostSubject: Re: S6E7: A Good Man Goes To War   Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:52 pm

Okay buts lets just look what hes gone through. He had to kill his entire race. Then in the end of time he technically had to do it again. Then in the Doctors Wife he thought one had survived just to find out he hadn't.
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PostSubject: Re: S6E7: A Good Man Goes To War   Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:59 pm

rdks, i couldn't agree more with your post. well said.
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PostSubject: Re: S6E7: A Good Man Goes To War   Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:35 pm

RDKS, I think that was part of River's "He'll rise higher than ever before," but I think we've yet to see all of "and then fall so much further."

As River tells him, this near deity reputation for the Doctor is actually the opposite of his identity. Moff's running with his idea that the word "Doctor" is actually from the Doctor.
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PostSubject: Re: S6E7: A Good Man Goes To War   Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:37 pm

You have to wonder how far is so much further. I mean i believe his darkest days were when he had to kill his entire race. What could be worse then that?
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PostSubject: Re: S6E7: A Good Man Goes To War   Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:28 pm

rdks wrote:
Clavius wrote:
lCol Runaway's "he's not a God, he's a living, breathing man" speech that he gives to the Clerics, felt more like a commentary by Moffat himself to the viewers that he felt The Doctor had become too much of an unstoppable force of nature, rather than simply a curious, adventure seeking eccentric...
I have to disagree with you, Clavius. I feel Moffat has done more to deify him even further. He's the one who introduced the whole "I'm the Doctor, now run away" gimmick you mentioned, and he's done it 3 times now!

Guess I should have stated it differently. What I meant about it being a "commentary" by Moffat more accurately should have been an "admission" by Moffat that The Doctor's power and influence has gone over the top. I'm not suggesting Moffat is wholly responsible, RTD had a big hand in it too, but Moffat HAS indeed gone a long way toward deifying the Good Doctor.

Remember back in the mid to late 80's when they felt the entire continuity of Superman comics had become too convoluted and Superman himself had too many powers, so they went and basically "rebooted" the whole shebang. Pa Kent was alive again, Superman was a bit more vulnerable, and the whole world in which it all took place was somehow more relatable and believable.

Or take Indiana Jones. When he survives a nuclear explosion by hiding in a refrigerator, how are we supposed to feel suspense anymore when our hero gets in a jam? The predicament can be TOO outlandish to simply write our hero out of without being completely implausible.

That's what I'm hoping Moffat is doing here. I know he blew up a Cyber-Fleet in this episode, I hope it was for the sake of further illustrating that the Doctor can defeat a foe way too effortlessly now.

Plus, he stood at the very front of an entire cleric army that has been training for one thing, KILL HIM, and simply flips off his hood and chuckles at them. Why was he not shot on sight by these people?, why did they even give him a chance to speak? Again, I'm hoping it's for Illustrative purposes and not just more "B!t# Please, I'm The Doctor".

There are things I absolutely LOVE about Eccleston, Tennant and Smith's versions of The Doctor and in spite of some very glaring flaws throughout the run, I still love this show and I'm having a ball with it.

That said, there's a kind of innocent charm that the Classic show had that the New has not quite yet been able to capture. There's been glimmers of it now and then, but as the New Who is superior in some ways, the Classic will be superior in ways that I don't think Moffat or anyone that succeeds him will ever be able to grasp.

I enjoy Moffat's dialogue and "twists" a great deal and I still feel he's the superior writer, but I think RTD actually "got" the feel and that sometimes goofy charm of Doctor Who more than he did.
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PostSubject: Re: S6E7: A Good Man Goes To War   Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:51 pm

Now that, I can agree with! Smile

Indiana Jones survived a nuclear explosion by hiding in a refrigerator? Oh, how glad I am I passed on seeing that movie...
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PostSubject: Re: S6E7: A Good Man Goes To War   Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:19 am

rdks wrote:
Now that, I can agree with! Smile

Indiana Jones survived a nuclear explosion by hiding in a refrigerator? Oh, how glad I am I passed on seeing that movie...

Yeah, they did make a point to show a close up of a label inside it that said "lead lined" to somehow make it plausible that he had a snowball's chance of surviving. But still, when the bomb went off the fridge was thrown miles clear to safety.

Though there is a shot immediately afterward of Indy shilouetted against a garantuan mushroom cloud that is actually quite beautiful and chilling.

Crystal Skull really ain't THAT bad. Ford did genuinely seem to be playing Indy again with relish and there were many fun moments, but it's still not fit to wipe the a$$ of any of the prior three films.
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PostSubject: Re: S6E7: A Good Man Goes To War   Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:25 am

Rocco wrote:
You have to wonder how far is so much further. I mean i believe his darkest days were when he had to kill his entire race. What could be worse then that?

The Time Lords, by the end of the Time War, were effectively rabid dogs that had to be put down for the good of the Universe. They did want to destroy Time itself, after all.

I think the "Fall so much further" line comes from the fact that we're likely going to see how the Doctor's reputation will actually interfere with what he tries to do.


And really, they overhype that "Make armies turn around and the mere mention of his name" bit. That happened once, and only because the Alliance was trying to get the Doctor inside the Pandorica.



I do feel the need to address the comment someone made about how the Doctor's grown so powerful he can reboot the entire Universe. The only reason that could occur was because the Pandorica's restoration field contained a "pocket" of the Original Universe within it. The Doctor merely piloted the Pandorica into the heart of the TARDIS explosion to distribute that restoration field throughout the whole of Time and Space. If any credit should be given for that event, give it to the Alliance that built the Pandorica. Furthermore, the Doctor piloted the Pandorica into the heart of that explosion knowing full well that the most likely outcome of the situation would be his death. Indeed, if it wasn't for the Crack in Amy's wall pouring the universe into her head as a child, he never would have been able to return to reality at all.

Again, it's not due to the Doctor's own uncanny knack, it's that the writer went and gave the Companion Super Powers. It is seriously sad that the weakest companion of the new series is the one that wasn't special in a universal sense (Bad Wolf, The Doctor Donna, Amy "Remembers" Pond...)



Finally, an observation:

Vestra asks the Doctor point blank if Melody could regenerate (Which is kind of shocking really. If Vestra knows about that, then it's very likely Vestra was once a companion of the Doctor. Makes me wonder which one.), and the Doctor rejects the idea out of hand, but then qualifies with "I don't think so."

It makes me wonder if the little girl we saw at the end of Day of the Moon was in fact Melody/River. While she might have Human plus Time Lord DNA, I recall in Journey's End the Doctor remarking that without a second heart, his Half-Human Clone couldn't regenerate.

So that begs the question: Does River have a second heart? If not, then who was the girl at the end of Day of the Moon?
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PostSubject: Re: S6E7: A Good Man Goes To War   Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:47 am

bret_owen99 wrote:
rdks, i couldn't agree more with your post. well said.

Me, too.
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PostSubject: Re: S6E7: A Good Man Goes To War   Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:48 am

rdks wrote:
Now that, I can agree with! Smile

Indiana Jones survived a nuclear explosion by hiding in a refrigerator? Oh, how glad I am I passed on seeing that movie...

And he jumped out of a crashing airplane in a life raft back in Temple of Doom, so that bit didn't bother me. It was just so BORING!
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PostSubject: Re: S6E7: A Good Man Goes To War   Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:14 pm

Crazy Theory Time:

What if Eye Patch Lady (Madam Korvorian? I honestly can't recall her
name) is River's version of the Valeyard? The Silence do have a TARDIS
and were caring for the Time Child/River. So what if the Doctor's
interference turns Melody into River we know, but the lack of the Doctor
turns Melody into Eye Patch Lady?

Paradox rules would seem to come into effect, but considering both The Big Bang and A Christmas Carol
(The latter more then the former) feature the same person of two
separate time periods interacting within the same moment of time and
space (And in the case of the latter, hugging)...I think it would be a
neat little twist, at any rate.
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PostSubject: Re: S6E7: A Good Man Goes To War   Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:58 am

The Doctor didn't take out the Cybermen easily. There was a full adventure ... that just happened to take place offscreen. He coordinated it with great difficulty.
I enjoyed the lactating Sontarran and the lesbian Silurian.
I still think The Doctor being overpowered was worse when he somehow managed to instantly place the Family of Blood into a abstract eternal torture and later became magical Jesus/Peter Pan. That happened during the RTD era. Moffat's Doctor seems to rely his knowlege of space-science and bluffing, which is appropriate given his level of experience. He's also realized there's no point in having a time machine if you have to go in a straight line.
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PostSubject: Re: S6E7: A Good Man Goes To War   Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:38 am

The Silurian was a lesbian?
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PostSubject: Re: S6E7: A Good Man Goes To War   Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:46 am

It was never directly stated, but her dialogue with Jenny strongly implied an intimate relationship with her.

That being said, it really wasn't relevant to her character as a whole - it was well used as just some playful banter and character building, which is some of Moffat's strengths as a writer.

Let's face it, after one episode, and I think the majority of the fandom would not be opposed to some more adventures of Vestras and Jenny.


And yeah, the Doctor's dealing with the Clerics was very much in keeping with Classic Doctor, trickery and minimal bloodshed. He even allowed the Clerics to leave without killing any of them. Considering he sentenced the Silence to be hunted without mercy for all of time for simply being parasites, that was incredibly generous of him seeing as how they took Amy and stole her baby.



One thing I've noticed that isn't being addressed is how both RTD and Moffat are building on the foundation set by Trial of the Time Lords. Specifically, the Valeyard and the fact the Doctor has 900+ year build up of darkness to deal with. When you look at the Doctor Post-Time War, in episodes like The Family of Blood, The Runaway Bride, and Day of the Moon, you can really see where the Valeyard comes from and how the Doctor will one day (and possibly one day soon) have to confront his growing shadow if he is to ever truly find peace.
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PostSubject: Re: S6E7: A Good Man Goes To War   Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:43 am

I don't see how it matters if she's hetrosexual, homosexual, bisexual, metrosexual, pansexual... Each to their own, etc.
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PostSubject: Re: S6E7: A Good Man Goes To War   Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:41 am


I liked when river checked back in with the Storm Cage guards after her birthday. It was like a Hotel Check in.

The Sontaran would say i hope you feel better and then i hope to meet you in battle etc

Im thinking Eye patch lady is wearing her patch because of the Doctor or some incarnation of him.

I also like when the Silurian and Blue man are grilling the Doctor on the Babies conception date. He is like they dont put ballons out lol

So now we have the summer break to go neurotic from this first 1/2


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