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 Borg Vs. Cybermen

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LakeErieMonster
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PostSubject: Borg Vs. Cybermen   Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:32 pm

Unfortunately I have not put in the time to make any valid statements at this time but figured I would open this can of worms to the forum.

Who is better?
Who would win?
Are the Borg conceputally just a knock off of the cybermen?
ETC?
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amagon
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PostSubject: Re: Borg Vs. Cybermen   Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:36 pm

I once wrote a story where a faction of The Cybermen crossed into The Delta Quadrant, and tried to convert a planet run by an evil queen. She ultimately took over them, became The Borg Queen, and hence, resistance is....
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PostSubject: Re: Borg Vs. Cybermen   Sun Sep 09, 2007 2:41 pm

Maurice Hurley's original intention was that the Borg were going to be insects, hence the hive mentality. But the budget constraints dictated men in suits. Not to mention that the writers strike led the Romulan/Federation alliance against the Borg storyline to be reconsidered. I wish they would have gone into more detail regarding that idea when they mentioned it a few years ago.

If Doctor Who had that budget to work with we would have had insects with WINGS!

I am not bitter, not one bit. But with the ingenuity that the Doctor Who teams over the years have shown, really makes me wish they had a hand in the designs of Star Trek. Especially Roger Murray-Leach.
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gregtdj
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PostSubject: Re: Borg Vs. Cybermen   Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:18 pm

With no Trek badge* to say as much about the Borg as Hoosier did, I'll take the question on what I do know and go for the straight forward answer.

Cybermen from the new series would have an advantage in overtaking the Borg. Their deletion or extreme electrocution method would be hard for the Borg to adapt to. Although given their make up of being cobbled together, the Borg may not be worthy of upgrading. But taken the other way, aspects of the Cybermen would definitely be considered worthy of being assimilated.

In the end, regardless of who was the dominant joiner of the two, their race would never conquer the Whoniverse since the daleks could wipe them out with one dalek.


*I think I wouldn't even rate an ensign probably more like the never before seen crewmen who suddenly appeared just in time to join the away team and die in the original series.
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CJSchmidt
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PostSubject: Re: Borg Vs. Cybermen   Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:52 am

In theory, I think the borg are a little more developed and creepy - though I haven't really found them interesting since TNG. Cybermen are a lot more fun (as Doctor Who tends to be, making it hard to compare to Star Trek).

I'd say classic Cybermen could give the Borg a run for their money, but current Cybermen really are actually pretty tame in the grand scale of things.

New Who has really scaled back the baddies.

Cybermen look way cooler though.
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PostSubject: Re: Borg Vs. Cybermen   Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:00 am

One thing is, the Borg would not assimilate the cybermen as they only have the brain left and as witnessed, they do not assimilate mechanical races.
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Calixar
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PostSubject: Re: Borg Vs. Cybermen   Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:47 am

Ages ago I saw one of the execuitive producers of TNG on QVC selling Trek stuff and answering questions. He said the Borg were a nod to both the Daleks and Cybermen.
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PostSubject: Re: Borg Vs. Cybermen   Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:53 am

the cybermen could probably upgrade the borgs
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Rust
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PostSubject: Re: Borg Vs. Cybermen   Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:10 pm

Cybermen would likely have the advantage. The Borg have been shown to not be able to adapt to melee combat, so the Electrocution would likely affect them harshly. Then when you throw in the new adaptions as seen in The Pandorica Opens, even a defeated Cyberman could still be a viable threat.

Also, the Cybermen are smart enough to recognize the (likely similar to Wi-Fi) signal of the Collective, and work to block that signal. Block the Borg from the Collective, then round them up for deletion. The Borg wouldn't make good candidates for Cybermen due to the hardware that goes into a Borg brain.


Not to mention, the Cybermen have more sinister/charismatic leaders. The Cyber Leader from Earthshock, The Cyber Controller from Age of Steel, Ms. Harrtigan...

Ms. Harrtigan is what the Borg Queen wishes she were.
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The Castellan
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PostSubject: Re: Borg Vs. Cybermen   Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:37 pm

Rust wrote:
Cybermen would likely have the advantage. The Borg have been shown to not be able to adapt to melee combat, so the Electrocution would likely affect them harshly. Then when you throw in the new adaptions as seen in The Pandorica Opens, even a defeated Cyberman could still be a viable threat.

Also, the Cybermen are smart enough to recognize the (likely similar to Wi-Fi) signal of the Collective, and work to block that signal. Block the Borg from the Collective, then round them up for deletion. The Borg wouldn't make good candidates for Cybermen due to the hardware that goes into a Borg brain.


Not to mention, the Cybermen have more sinister/charismatic leaders. The Cyber Leader from Earthshock, The Cyber Controller from Age of Steel, Ms. Harrtigan...

Ms. Harrtigan is what the Borg Queen wishes she were.

Big problem is the Cybusmen would need to physically touch a Borg to electrocute them...and the fact that if the Cybusmen or Cybermen manage to wipe out a few Borg, the rest will know how to adapt, plus Cybusmen and Cybermen have no personal shield systems. And in Q Who, Borg can vaporise when key components are removed, probably for security reasons, and making a Borg into a Cyberman would be hard, if not impossible.

Though the conversation process for both Borg and classic Cybermen, I think, would both be similar, involving live butchery. Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: Borg Vs. Cybermen   Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:46 pm

Rust wrote:
Also, the Cybermen are smart enough to recognize the (likely similar to Wi-Fi) signal of the Collective, and work to block that signal. Block the Borg from the Collective, then round them up for deletion.
The Borg Collective's signal actually is broadcast through subspace, similar to the domain transporters operate on. The Cybermen likely have access to this technology due to their own limited hive-mind, but theirs is nowhere near the scale of the Borg's network. Not to mention that the Borg will very easily adapt to just about anything the Cybermen throw at them.

Point: Borg


Plus, the Borg are creepy as all get out.
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PostSubject: Re: Borg Vs. Cybermen   Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:26 pm

The Castellan wrote:

Big problem is the Cybusmen would need to physically touch a Borg to electrocute them...and the fact that if the Cybusmen or Cybermen manage to wipe out a few Borg, the rest will know how to adapt, plus Cybusmen and Cybermen have no personal shield systems.

True, however the Borg don't or appearently cannot adapt to Physical assaults. Their adaption technology seems based on kinetic and energy weaponry. Furthermore, Borg energy weapons tend to be bulky, rather unwieldy things and not in great numbers on their individual troops. In tight cooridors with many access routes, I think the advantage would go to Cybermen. However in long hallways with single entrances and exits, the Borg would have the advantage.


Quote :
And in Q Who, Borg can vaporise when key components are removed, probably for security reasons, and making a Borg into a Cyberman would be hard, if not impossible.

I doubt the Cybermen would be interested in converting a Borg anyway. The Borg stick too much hardware into the brain - it'd make the resulting Cyberman difficult to control and likely extremely possible the Cyber-Borg would revert back to the Collective.

Quote :

Though the conversation process for both Borg and classic Cybermen, I think, would both be similar, involving live butchery. Shocked

Not really. First Contact gave a good account of the Assimilation process. The recipient appears to be aware of some aspects of it, but the Nanotech the Borg inject them with seems to shut down higher congnative functions (As they have to be physically lead to Assimilation facilities by Borg) as well as pain receptors.

Cybermen? Buzz Saws, Wet Noises, and a lot of screaming.
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PostSubject: Re: Borg Vs. Cybermen   Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:46 pm

ok, i know i'm going to de-rail the topic here, but forget about the borg and the cybermen. i was always afraid of The Replicators from stargate sg-1. i mean robot bugs that can turn into anything. maybe it's just my dislike of bugs.
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SuperJoshe
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PostSubject: Re: Borg Vs. Cybermen   Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:09 pm

We haven't even talked about space battles. The Borg Cube is absolutely colossal, with a volume around 28 cubic kilometers, and can remain operational even if 78% of it is destroyed. Coupled with a transwarp drive, a single Cube is a threat to whole planets, and a fleet could strip an entire sector of life.
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Calixar
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PostSubject: Re: Borg Vs. Cybermen   Sat Sep 04, 2010 2:11 am

bret_owen99 wrote:
ok, i know i'm going to de-rail the topic here, but forget about the borg and the cybermen. i was always afraid of The Replicators from stargate sg-1. i mean robot bugs that can turn into anything. maybe it's just my dislike of bugs.

I'm with you on that. The spider-versions were all-out creepy!
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PostSubject: Re: Borg Vs. Cybermen   Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:59 am

Sorry couldn't resist! Laughing
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