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 Taking a Dive into Classic Who

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Rust
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PostSubject: Re: Taking a Dive into Classic Who   Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:10 pm

Ah. Gotcha.

I've managed to get through the first three parts of The Pirate Planet. I've got to say, the story is solid (I have my suspicions on where it's going. Namely who the Captain's "Nurse" is)...solid? I'm doing it a disservice. The Story is brilliant. The sets and costume pieces are jaw dropping (The Captain's costume is insanely detailed and realized for a 70s TV program), the banter witty, and the action intense.

About the only thing I find absolutely hokey is the weaponry of the guards. I mean, that's low tech special effects even compared to K-9's weaponry.


Still, after everything if all I can bicker about is one off special effect (Well, there was that camera snafu at the beginning where they accidentally zoomed in a bit on Tom's hair and had to bring the camera down), I've got nothing to complain about.

When I saw who penned it (Douglas Adams), I honestly expected somewhat of a silly affair, but in reality the show is actually dealing with some heavy concepts. It's a pity I have to be up for work at 3 am, because I'm really eager to see how this story ends.
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PostSubject: Re: Taking a Dive into Classic Who   Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:02 am

Finished up "The Pirate Planet". It was a fine tale, even if the ending devolved into techno-babble and the nurse reveal (I was right) felt rushed and never resolved properly. I thought it could have done with another episode, especially since they never did obtain the second fragment on-screen.
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PostSubject: Re: Taking a Dive into Classic Who   Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:34 am

Rust wrote:
Finished up "The Pirate Planet". It was a fine tale, even if the ending devolved into techno-babble and the nurse reveal (I was right) felt rushed and never resolved properly. I thought it could have done with another episode, especially since they never did obtain the second fragment on-screen.

The Stones of Blood coming up is one of my favs. I love the outdoors in this one. alien monkey afro
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PostSubject: Re: Taking a Dive into Classic Who   Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:34 pm

Watched Stones of Blood. Overall, it wasn't bad. The outdoor shots were nicely done, great cinematography.

Unfortunately, the story is kinda rambling mess, isn't it? It literally changes gears mid-way through and turns into something completely different. It doesn't necessarily bother me because I enjoyed the tale's second act immensely, but it doesn't flow well at all.

Still, two great alien race concepts (Blood Drinking Stones and By-the-Book Justice Machines), and while I was disappointed the dark and moody concept of Blood Sacrifice was so quickly abandoned I did get a kick out of the Doctor gaming the legal system to stave off an execution.

I also wasn't fond of the night shots. Perhaps it was because I was watching it in the middle of the afternoon with the sun high in the sky, but a lot of the night shots I couldn't make out much of anything that was happening.

It's not my favorite of the seasonbut it's hardly a bad story. Though while The Pirate Planet could have benefited from another episode, I feel Stones of Blood could have benefited from fewer episodes. Or at least done away with the go-nowhere plot point of the Druid Cult and Blood Sacrifice, and instead revolved completely around the Hyperspace Ship and the Justice Machines.

And I have to say, I really, really would love for those things to be brought back. As a final thought that also pretains to the Justice Machines, I also liked the special effects used for them. It was simple, but still well executed and the cast did a wonderful job in making you believe they were there.
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PostSubject: Re: Taking a Dive into Classic Who   Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:38 pm

Taking a break from "The Key to Time", because The Three Doctors arrived today.


It.
Blew.
My.
Freaking.
Mind.

The Special Effects (For the era in which the story appeared) are phenomenal, yet tactfully subdued. I still love the Second Doctor's entrance.

The sets? Well done and realized.

The Costumes? Frankly, I dig the Time Lords' get up here then their settled upon garb. And Omega is just as imposing and fantastic today as he was on the original broadcast date.


The Acting? Stephen Thorne deserves an award. His portrayal of Omega made my jaw literally drop. While wearing that mask, he had to rely solely on his voice and mannerisms - a challenge for any actor, really. But then to walk that very fine line between a True Menace and a Large Ham...it would have been so easy to push Omega's characterization over the edge into outright ridiculousness, yet Mister Thorne never succumbed to the Temptation, making Omega quite possibly the most tragic Villain I've yet encountered in Who Lore. Reasonable and Stark Raving Mad. The Doctors comment on his "lack of self control"...Thorne makes their exposition unnecessary, because you hear it for yourself.

That's not to dismiss the acting of the rest of the cast. Everyone is at peak performance here (Save for Hartnell, who really did come across as reading cue cards. At the same time, the man was ill. I'm willing to cut him all the slack in the world simply for agreeing to be a part of it.), The Lord President was a bit of the "Large Ham" School of Acting, but nothing distracting. I got a kick out of the poor Brigadier's befuddlement and confusion at the events. Poor man just can't take thinking in four dimensions. Sergent Benton impressed this time around, and I finally get to meet Jo Grant, who I found a good (if clingy) companion. Anyone care to tell me what happened to Liz, though?

Patrick Troughton continues to delight and likely will remain my favorite Doctor (I reserve ultimate judgment till I'm able to see him in one of his own adventures without the presence of other Doctors), and Jon Pertwee gives a solid characterization to the Doctor. William Hartnell was sadly limited to an advisory role, but I can hardly begrudge a man's failing health.


All in all, this was a fantastic purchase on my part. I have no qualms about easily recommending this story, and I don't hesitate to say that, as of this moment, this is my favorite Doctor Who story.
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Cruel Angel
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PostSubject: Re: Taking a Dive into Classic Who   Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:58 am

Liz fell victim to the DW Producer mindset I hate- if you have a companion that is on an equal (or superior) level with the Doctor, then that takes away from what the 'role' of the companion is storywise- to ask questions and get the Doc to explain things, thus providing an explanation to the viewing audience so they can understand what is going on. They are also supposed to get in/ blunder into trouble so the Doc can come in and rescue them (the companion in distress, so to speak).

So when you have someone like a competent scientist, Time Lady, etc... you don't get that. The smart one doesn't have to ask questions, they already get it. They also are smart enough to not take stupid risks and get into trouble for the most part, plus they are smart enough to get themselves out of it and they aren't totally dependent on the Doc for everything.

In the case of Liz, that's what happened. They decided to not renew her contract. That's why there is no farewell scene or anything. The Brig tells the Doc in Terror of the Autons that she went back to her position at Cambridge, because all the Doc really needs for an assistant is someone to pass him his test tubes and tell him how brilliant he is. Enter Jo Grant.

That's one of my major complaints on the companions... I love the braniacs (Zoe, Liz, Romana, Nyssa, etc) but with that companion role mindset, most of them start out well, but then the writers downplay their smarts and start turning them into distress/ scream queens. Romana 1 left the series because that's what Romana was turning into, and if it wasn't for Davison's repeated intervention, the producers would have gotten rid of Nyssa too.

As far as the new series goes... I keep holding out hope that Romana will come back from E Space.
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PostSubject: Re: Taking a Dive into Classic Who   Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:40 am

Cruel Angel wrote:
Liz fell victim to the DW Producer mindset I hate- if you have a companion that is on an equal (or superior) level with the Doctor, then that takes away from what the 'role' of the companion is storywise- to ask questions and get the Doc to explain things, thus providing an explanation to the viewing audience so they can understand what is going on. They are also supposed to get in/ blunder into trouble so the Doc can come in and rescue them (the companion in distress, so to speak).

So when you have someone like a competent scientist, Time Lady, etc... you don't get that. The smart one doesn't have to ask questions, they already get it. They also are smart enough to not take stupid risks and get into trouble for the most part, plus they are smart enough to get themselves out of it and they aren't totally dependent on the Doc for everything.

In the case of Liz, that's what happened. They decided to not renew her contract. That's why there is no farewell scene or anything. The Brig tells the Doc in Terror of the Autons that she went back to her position at Cambridge, because all the Doc really needs for an assistant is someone to pass him his test tubes and tell him how brilliant he is. Enter Jo Grant.

That's one of my major complaints on the companions... I love the braniacs (Zoe, Liz, Romana, Nyssa, etc) but with that companion role mindset, most of them start out well, but then the writers downplay their smarts and start turning them into distress/ scream queens. Romana 1 left the series because that's what Romana was turning into, and if it wasn't for Davison's repeated intervention, the producers would have gotten rid of Nyssa too.

As far as the new series goes... I keep holding out hope that Romana will come back from E Space.

Caroline John was also quite pregnant as they filmed the last episodes, but not showing yet. She had not told the producers she could not continue on the show the next season. So, in an ironic way, it worked out for her as well.
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PostSubject: Re: Taking a Dive into Classic Who   Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:01 am

Yup, just a shame that barring the pregnancy, she would have been given the heave ho. She was my fav of the 3rd Doc's companions.

Sadly should they ever put out companion figures, I think Liz would be thought of last in the priority... Sarah being first, then Jo. Might not get a Liz if they only do a limited # of companions throughout the classic run.
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PostSubject: Re: Taking a Dive into Classic Who   Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:10 pm

Well, I finished up Tomb of the Cybermen (Which arrived today).

I have to say, it was a very solid story. Very nice build up to the Cybermen's actual reveal as well. Patrick Troughton's Doctor continues to delight, definitely earning the title "Favorite Doctor". Matter of fact, Matt Smith's performance reminds me of Troughton's. Light and whimsical surface hiding a serious and competent mind beneath.

The beginning almost reminded me of Silence in the Library when the Doctor was confronted by the expedition (To the point I was hoping Troughton would say "I'm a Time Traveler. I point and laugh at Archeologists.")

Jamie continues to delight as a companion (Loved the Doctor's crack about his kilt), and I gotta say, Victoria is a cutie (It's those huge eyes of hers).

I will admit, I was somewhat bracing myself when it came to the Cybermen. I knew this was real early in their evolution, so I wasn't going to hold their appearance against them, but I have to admit...they're almost scarier then their contemporary counterparts (Though I was inserting my own "DELETE!" comments during the apprehension sequence). It speaks well to the actors cast to portray them, the way they carry themselves in the suit really casts a sense of dread. I also liked the Cybercontroller's Open/Shut Mouth mechanism when he spoke.

Indeed, one of the more brutal parts of the episode had to have been when the big guy (Who'd been partly converted himself) tussles with one of the Cybermen and ends up gutting him. At first, I did find the sequence a bit silly ("My Marshmallow Cream Innards! Noooooooo!" was my exact comment), but the sequence kept going, and that "Marshmallow Cream" literally covered the upper torso while the Cyberman continued to trash and the electronic voice kept getting weaker, and weaker...

It went from something almost silly to absolutely mortifying in about four seconds flat. For something that was (and still is) considered a "Kid's Show", that's fairly intense.


Not only does Patrick Troughton cement himself as my favorite Doctor with this tale, but so too do the Cybermen cement themselves as my favorite Who Villain (Which makes their current status all the more irritating, because I don't know whether to associate the Cybermen seen in Season 5 with Pete's World (as they look) or Mondas/Telos (as they suggest via technology and spaceborne capability).


SeaDevil wrote:
Ok good. I'm glad you accept the flaws as what they
are. Some folks are not so forgiving when trying to get into the
original show.

Believe it or not, I've been chewing over this quote for awhile. Mainly because I was trying to figure out why I do give these old Sci-Fi programs with their shoestring budgets the chance to shine on their own merits without decrying them simply as "Old".

I think a big part of it came from the fact that, growing up as a kid, I was big into Star Trek. More then that, my parents had bought several VHS tapes of the original show's run from the 1960s. I've already been exposed to that era of Special Effects.

Also, I grew up on the original Sci-Fi Channel. With shows like The Twilight Zone, The Time Tunnel, Land of the Giants, the original Battlestar Galactica, etc.

So I think part of the reason I'm able to accept Classic Doctor Who is that in a sense, I "grew up" with this level of story telling. It also can't hurt I'm one of those individuals that can really pick out CG. There's something "off" about CG to me, and no movie is free of it. Even "Avatar" felt more like watching a Cartoon for myself. I just see the CG for what it is. There's something about it's depth and crispness that is always lacking. It looks Fake.

Now granted, directors who take Special Effects and combine them with practical ones (Such as how Michael Bay did "Transformers" or Spielberg with "Jurassic Park") tend to limit the "glare" in my eyes and help make it a part of the story. Pure CG bugs the crap out of me.

That's another reason I likely am able to accept Doctor Who. They make do with a lot more practical effects (Such as the Cyber Gun in this story, who leaves a smoking wound but otherwise little else), and I like practical effects. No matter how hokey they may seem, they're still a real effect.
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PostSubject: Re: Taking a Dive into Classic Who   Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:42 pm

It's part of the charm of old-school film making. I love real effects and models and stunts. Even if it's not pulled off to perfection, its more "real" than digital, which can be too perfect. That's why I kinda find "Underworld" kinda fun despite its shortcomings. Do I think it could have been made better today? Yes. Does it detract from my enjoyment? No.
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PostSubject: Re: Taking a Dive into Classic Who   Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:21 pm

I run into the same thing with fellow horror fans, esp the younger ones. For many of them, if there isn't a lot of gore, or the production values/ FX is not up to 'current' standards, they think it's lame. God forbid you try and show them something in black and white.

And I know some people that are my age that have 'outgrown' the shows they liked as a kid. Yes, nowadays I can take a look at the Six Million Dollar Man and go... okay, his arms and legs should be ripping away from his torso, or his spine should get crushed during his bionic feats. I don't care. I will be happily shelling out the 100+ dollars for the complete series set this Fall.

I have always put things in perspective. Older you go, the older the production values. Most of my favorite horror films are in black and white... I like their look better than many of the color films. FX, same thing. Someone can take a look at older series and see the mattes, the outlines of things that are superimposed on the image, strings holding up objects, ships, actors, etc. Doesn't bother me.

But I know it does some people. I've tried to introduce some friends to DW, and that's what mostly gets them... they can't look past the production value and FX and focus on the story and characters.
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PostSubject: Re: Taking a Dive into Classic Who   Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:41 pm

Older Horror films are the best films. Creature Makeup, Puppetry, and not excessive amounts of gore.

Modern Horror is nothing more then pseudo-snuff films.
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PostSubject: Re: Taking a Dive into Classic Who   Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:32 pm

Cruel Angel wrote:



And I know some people that are my age that have 'outgrown' the shows they liked as a kid. Yes, nowadays I can take a look at the Six Million Dollar Man and go... okay, his arms and legs should be ripping away from his torso, or his spine should get crushed during his bionic feats. I don't care. I will be happily shelling out the 100+ dollars for the complete series set this Fall.


This is coming out!!?? I have been wanting this show for years!
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PostSubject: Re: Taking a Dive into Classic Who   Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:34 pm

Finished up Earthshock.

First off, I have to say I'm glad I watched the Special Features before typing this commentary/review up, because it helped change my opinion on certain aspects of the story.

One of the disadvantages of going from New Who into Classic Who, is the fact I'm experiencing the whole series out of order, and not in the half an hour chunks they were originally aired as. So the big "Cyber Reveal" at the end of Episode One just felt clunky to me. Thanks to the Special Features, I got some perspective on that scene (Namely, how long the Cybermen had been away).

Also the Special Features revealed to me that Steven Moffat has no love for Adric.


The story itself was well done, if slightly bare bones (I'd love to explore more about the Freighter, to be honest), and the special effects were well done for the most part (And I learned that there's an option to turn on CG Effect Replacements. Talk about a reason to watch it again!). I dug the build up, the almost "Alien" aspect of the first episode. I also really dug the use of the two mirrors to mimic the appearance of multitudes of marching Cybermen. It's a very easy to spot camera trick, but the fact it's a trick doesn't make it any less impressive on the small screen. The Cybermen's "Awakening" sequence was also well done, I thought. (What is with Cybermen wrapping themselves in Saran Wrap? Does it help prevent freezer burn?)

The Android guardians of the Cybermen's bomb was a little hockey, but again the special features explain why they didn't want to reveal the Cybermen till the last shot. Also, another aspect of me "Doing it Wrong" when it comes to viewing Doctor Who, I couldn't help but think of the androids as Slabs (From "Smith and Jones"). Frankly, doesn't seem like there's any reason they *couldn't* be Slabs, after all.

The Cybermen recap of the Doctor was a nice touch, and I absolutely dug their new outfits.


If there's one complaint I had though, it'd be the Cybermen really felt more like men in suits in most of their scenes. The actors were emoting far too much (Cybermen standing around talking like dime store Stormtroopers!). The Cyber Leader particularly grated on my nerves after awhile, with his gloating and general smugness. I also have to say, I wasn't a fan of the clear lower jaw. I'm also thinking of making up a Drinking game. You take a shot every time the Cyber Leader says "Excellent". You'll be stone drunk halfway though the story.


Now, onto the big one: Adric's death. Indeed, this is my first exposure to Adric, so I had the disadvantage of just meeting the lad and then he's killed. So obviously, the impact was slightly lost. Still potent stuff for mainstream TV, though. I found his last line touching, as someone so young is so calm in the face of his own destruction.


Finally, this was my chance to evaluate Peter Davidson's take on The Doctor without the interfering presence of Troughton and Pertwee. Overall, I'm comfortable with Davidson's Doctor. You can see where Tennant pulled a lot of his character from Davidson. Still, I thought he could have been a bit better. He goes for a lot subtler reactions with the Doctor, but he just can't emote with his eyes the way Tennant can. I don't mind the guy's Doctor, it's just between two adventures there's nothing beyond that stick of celery that really sticks out about him.


All in all, Earthshock was a good story. I'd still rate Tomb of the Cybermen and New Who's Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steel above it though. They just didn't *feel* like the Cybermen I've grown used to. No conversions, no tandum marching (Indeed, on the shot of the Cyber Leader leading the Doctor back to the TARDIS, note how he misses a step and fumbles at the landing), and generally they're too "human" for my tastes.
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PostSubject: Re: Taking a Dive into Classic Who   Sun Aug 01, 2010 1:20 pm

Rust wrote:
Finished up Earthshock.

First off, I have to say I'm glad I watched the Special Features before typing this commentary/review up, because it helped change my opinion on certain aspects of the story.

One of the disadvantages of going from New Who into Classic Who, is the fact I'm experiencing the whole series out of order, and not in the half an hour chunks they were originally aired as. So the big "Cyber Reveal" at the end of Episode One just felt clunky to me. Thanks to the Special Features, I got some perspective on that scene (Namely, how long the Cybermen had been away).

Also the Special Features revealed to me that Steven Moffat has no love for Adric.


The story itself was well done, if slightly bare bones (I'd love to explore more about the Freighter, to be honest), and the special effects were well done for the most part (And I learned that there's an option to turn on CG Effect Replacements. Talk about a reason to watch it again!). I dug the build up, the almost "Alien" aspect of the first episode. I also really dug the use of the two mirrors to mimic the appearance of multitudes of marching Cybermen. It's a very easy to spot camera trick, but the fact it's a trick doesn't make it any less impressive on the small screen. The Cybermen's "Awakening" sequence was also well done, I thought. (What is with Cybermen wrapping themselves in Saran Wrap? Does it help prevent freezer burn?)

The Android guardians of the Cybermen's bomb was a little hockey, but again the special features explain why they didn't want to reveal the Cybermen till the last shot. Also, another aspect of me "Doing it Wrong" when it comes to viewing Doctor Who, I couldn't help but think of the androids as Slabs (From "Smith and Jones"). Frankly, doesn't seem like there's any reason they *couldn't* be Slabs, after all.

The Cybermen recap of the Doctor was a nice touch, and I absolutely dug their new outfits.


If there's one complaint I had though, it'd be the Cybermen really felt more like men in suits in most of their scenes. The actors were emoting far too much (Cybermen standing around talking like dime store Stormtroopers!). The Cyber Leader particularly grated on my nerves after awhile, with his gloating and general smugness. I also have to say, I wasn't a fan of the clear lower jaw. I'm also thinking of making up a Drinking game. You take a shot every time the Cyber Leader says "Excellent". You'll be stone drunk halfway though the story.


Now, onto the big one: Adric's death. Indeed, this is my first exposure to Adric, so I had the disadvantage of just meeting the lad and then he's killed. So obviously, the impact was slightly lost. Still potent stuff for mainstream TV, though. I found his last line touching, as someone so young is so calm in the face of his own destruction.


Finally, this was my chance to evaluate Peter Davidson's take on The Doctor without the interfering presence of Troughton and Pertwee. Overall, I'm comfortable with Davidson's Doctor. You can see where Tennant pulled a lot of his character from Davidson. Still, I thought he could have been a bit better. He goes for a lot subtler reactions with the Doctor, but he just can't emote with his eyes the way Tennant can. I don't mind the guy's Doctor, it's just between two adventures there's nothing beyond that stick of celery that really sticks out about him.


All in all, Earthshock was a good story. I'd still rate Tomb of the Cybermen and New Who's Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steel above it though. They just didn't *feel* like the Cybermen I've grown used to. No conversions, no tandum marching (Indeed, on the shot of the Cyber Leader leading the Doctor back to the TARDIS, note how he misses a step and fumbles at the landing), and generally they're too "human" for my tastes.

My biggest problem with NuWho's Cybermen (I call them Cybusmen) is that they, to me, are not scary or interesting. They have no personalities or anything going for them. The whole "DELETE!" and "I obey!" feel as if they just swiped and tweaked the Dalek's speech. Plus that stomping is so annoying I feel.
I liked the Cybermen from Revenge of the Cybermen and Earthshock because we see them exhibit some personality and personas, and that there are more organic materials tucked in amongst all that metal and circuits, and not just a brain in a robot's body, makes them more creepier. The Tenth Planet is a good example of that, especially their speech, which sounds like a computer using a humanoid's larynx and having a lagging delay to it like the computer is quickly looking for the correct sounds to use. The CO's Tenth Planet Cybermen figure even made their faces look like there is a bare skull under the mask, along with the organic hands, adds more to the grizzly feel they have to them.

Watch this review and you'll see what I mean. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utz2wLUhwnk

I hope we get to see the Cybermen again, and I don't mean Mr. Lumus's Cybusmen, no way he could have made THAT many. Plus I am surprised Marvel did not sue, since the Cybusmen just scream Ironman. If the Cybusmen were only a one off for that one season two story, I would be fine with that, but I am getting tired of seeing these guys over and over again.

Anyone else agree with me on this? confused Question


As for Stones of the Blood, I wish they kept with the Druidic stuff, since many of my fav stories were of the Gothic stories and so on....like The Daemons, The Stones of Blood, Image of the Fendhal, Pyramids of Mars, and so on.
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PostSubject: Re: Taking a Dive into Classic Who   Sun Aug 01, 2010 1:51 pm

The Castellan wrote:

My biggest problem with NuWho's Cybermen (I call them Cybusmen) is that they, to me, are not scary or interesting. They have no personalities or anything going for them. The whole "DELETE!" and "I obey!" feel as if they just swiped and tweaked the Dalek's speech. Plus that stomping is so annoying I feel.

Now see, I disagree with that. I find their stomping, uniform march, and "DELETE!" to be fantastic. Indeed, watching "Tomb of the Cybermen", those presented there were much like the "Cybusmen" in action and motivation.

Quote :

I liked the Cybermen from Revenge of the Cybermen and Earthshock because we see them exhibit some personality and personas, and that there are more organic materials tucked in amongst all that metal and circuits, and not just a brain in a robot's body, makes them more creepier.

Just seems to defeat the purpose of a metal humanoid, all emotions removed, to be standing around and chatting it up. Like the special feature "Putting the Shock in Earthshock", the comment on the line 'The last great meal that you ate' (or something along those lines) invokes the image of the Cybermen as domestic.

It's what makes the outtakes of Season 2 of New Who (Featuring the Cyberman asking for directions to the BBC, then flying "free as a bird" in the field, and the football match against K-9) so entertaining because that's out of character for the Cybermen. Earthshock Cybers seemed like they actually might do something like that.

Quote :
I hope we get to see the Cybermen again, and I don't mean Mr. Lumus's Cybusmen, no way he could have made THAT many.

I dunno. There seemed to be plenty of of them in "Doomsday". Factor in Torchwood's "Cyberwoman" not sucking all of them in and some Cybermen escape the Void prior to its collapse, and we'll likely see them again. Though I do wish they'd ditch the Cybus logo.

Quote :
Plus I am surprised Marvel did not sue, since the Cybusmen just scream Ironman.

Actually, I think they look more like C-3PO then Iron Man. Evil C-3POs.

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PostSubject: Re: Taking a Dive into Classic Who   Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:56 am

Rust wrote:
... The Three Doctors arrived....as of this moment, this is my favorite Doctor Who story.
Glad you liked it! One of my favourite stories but not well-liked by the majority of Who fandom. Troughton and Pertwee together are amazing (and the highlight of The Five Doctors).

Rust wrote:
Well, I finished up Tomb of the Cybermen ...Patrick Troughton's Doctor continues to delight, definitely earning the title "Favorite Doctor".
He is brilliant! A shame most of his stories are gone. Sad You've still got a few left to enjoy him. Quite often I call him my favourite.

Rust wrote:
Finished up Earthshock... So the big "Cyber Reveal" at the end of Episode One just felt clunky to me.
I'll never forget that moment... I was a little kid and had no idea the Cybermen were there! What a shocker. They had been gone for YEARS. That was so awesome!
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Rust
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PostSubject: Re: Taking a Dive into Classic Who   Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:07 pm

Finished up The Androids of Tara.

The biggest thing with these classic stories is, I tend to get really bored during the first episode, so it's a good thing I was mostly done with the first episode when I picked up where I left off. The last few moments of the first episode finally got the ball rolling to the point I wrapped up the story. Seriously, you've got about a hundred minutes per story to play with, there's really no reason to devote the first twenty minutes to setting and story extrapolation.

Overall, not a bad tale. A bit rambling (The whole experimentation with the Key Fragment went nowhere as did the revelation that Romana wasn't Taran), but overall a decent adventure with a lot of fun, madcap moments for the Doctor.

The one thing that really bugged me though was the scene in which Count Grath entered the King's estate under a flag of truce to try to convince the Doctor to take the crown. The flat out flaunt the fact they're all on a set piece when Grath materializes in the same room as the Doctor and company (Since he just walked around the wall). I dunno if that was meant to be a clever cut or if it was the only way to line the shot up so Grath could throw the spear into the Android King, but it irked the heck out of me. (Indeed, flashback of the MST3K of the movie Gunslinger: "Are they flaunting the fact the town is nothing but false fronts?")


Still, I did love the ending. Poor K-9, stranded on the boat.
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PostSubject: Re: Taking a Dive into Classic Who   Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:11 pm

For some reason, Tara is the one arc for the Key to Time that just didn't do anything for me.

It might have been the finding the segment right off of the bat, or the 'look-a-like' scenario being used again. I just couldn't sustain my interest for the rest of the story.

The one thing that I did love... Romana's outfit. If I ever am able to get an autograph from Tamm, I'd want to get it on a Tara pic.

Gee, now that I started to think about the Key to Time, I have chants of Kroll going through my head...


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PostSubject: Re: Taking a Dive into Classic Who   Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:44 pm

Actually, the Moonbase and Tomb Cybermen were pretty clever and such.

What did Romana wear in Tara?
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PostSubject: Re: Taking a Dive into Classic Who   Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:10 pm

A neat little Purple and Gold affair. Purple tunic with Gold embroidery, Gold Belt, Purple Leggings, and Black boots (All clothing is medieval styling).

I haven't gotten to The Power for Kroll yet. I've kinda become preoccupied with StarCraft 2.
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PostSubject: Re: Taking a Dive into Classic Who   Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:39 pm

Cruel Angel wrote:

I have always put things in perspective. Older you go, the older the production values. Most of my favorite horror films are in black and white... I like their look better than many of the color films. FX, same thing. Someone can take a look at older series and see the mattes, the outlines of things that are superimposed on the image, strings holding up objects, ships, actors, etc. Doesn't bother me.

I'd also like to say that a lot of people have the idea that "Black and White" and/or "Poor Special Effects" equals "Not up to today's standards of story telling."

If anything, most B&W films are better films then modern cinema, because they don't have a lot to work with. The "B Movies" of the late 40s and 50s really damaged the credibility of the Golden Age of Hollywood, which is absolutely heartbreaking. heck, in the realm of Horror, "Nosfaratu" is still superior to the vast majority of Horror Films in general, and that movie doesn't even feature spoken dialogue!

Though for SciFi, my heart will always belong to 1953's "The War of the Worlds". Those Special Effects hold up even today, and ever since seeing it as a little kid, that scene with the Priest approaching the Space Ships has stuck with me. A true Masterwork.

I've found myself watching TCM a lot more often lately, and the movies are absolutely enthralling. The stories are well realized, and the actors all carry themselves as their characters. The Women especially are a lot better then modern Movie "Starlettes", who are often cast for their looks more then their talent (Ms. Fox, Ms. Alba to name a few).

I'm especially looking forward to "The Last Gangster", coming out on DVD soon. (Outside Sci-Fi and Horror, my guilty pleasure is old Gangster movies. There was one I saw previewed on TCM one night that for the life of me I can't remember. Had a premise slightly like Ocean's Eleven, with a motley crew of gangsters assembled to pull off a Diamond Heist by a shady mastermind, and how everyone plans to double cross everyone else and how that plan might (or might not) come apart as the plan does. It seemed really good, but I forgot to catch it when it was on and have since lost the name of it.)
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PostSubject: Re: Taking a Dive into Classic Who   Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:57 pm

Quote :

Though for SciFi, my heart will always belong to 1953's "The War of the Worlds". Those Special Effects hold up even today, and ever since seeing it as a little kid, that scene with the Priest approaching the Space Ships has stuck with me. A true Masterwork.

You're not kidding. WotW is an amazing film and I think it still looks fantastic today. And I don't mean, "ah that doesn't look too bad for a movie from 1953." I think it looks fantastic, period.

I've been re-watching some classic Who lately, but I make a habit of going through most of the series every year. Have done ever since I was young and I had them all recorded on VHS. So I'm not usually surprised or taken back.

Just finished watching The Sun Makers. Always one of my favs. And Day of the Daleks. Tomorrow I think I'll watch Attack of the Cybermen.
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Rust
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PostSubject: Re: Taking a Dive into Classic Who   Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:53 pm

Despite the fact I still haven't finished up the "Key to Time" Saga (Indeed, haven't even started on the Power of Kroll yet), I did go ahead and order Genesis of the Daleks (Mainly because it seems to tie in with New Who's Fourth Series Finale, but also because a lot of people label it the first shot of the Last Great Time War), and also Invasion (Because I'm a total Cyberman Nut, and also it gives me an excuse for another Patrick Troughton story).

I still don't know what to do for an example of McCoy or Hartnell stories, however. My friend (Who has a great chunk of the series on VHS) and his wife have basically said I'm not missing much with Hartnell, and he couldn't offer any worthwhile suggestions for McCoy.

As a result, I'm thinking of going with The War Machines from the Hartnell era (Because it seems like an interesting tale, and also because I can get it stupid cheap, so it's no huge loss if I end up not liked the tale), and Remembrance of the Daleks from the McCoy era (As it is the last aired story, barring the 1996 movie, prior to the 2005 relaunch).

As always, if anyone has any suggestions for examples of these two Doctors, I'd be more then open to them.
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PostSubject: Re: Taking a Dive into Classic Who   Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:06 pm

Rust wrote:
My friend (Who has a great chunk of the series on VHS) and his wife have basically said I'm not missing much with Hartnell,
Slap him, then watch everything available on DVD except Web Planet. Razz

Seriously, Hartnell has some amazing episodes. The Time Meddler, Dalek Invasion of Earth, Unearthly Child, The Daleks, and The Aztecs are all amazing stories. You could really pick any of them, other than Web Planet (it doesn't even get italics).

It all boils down to personal taste. Some people hate the Hartnell era, I love it. Your friend said the McCoy era had nothing worthwhile, and that I agree with, but others will defend McCoy viciously. I know, I've crossed them before.

EXCELLENT choices with Genesis and The Invasion. Both are top-notch stories.
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