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 For those who don't like moffat.....

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bret_owen99
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PostSubject: For those who don't like moffat.....   Tue Jul 06, 2010 6:24 pm

http://io9.com/5576090/10-overused-doctor-who-plot-devices-wed-like-a-moratorium-on


this is a great article articulating everything i've been trying to say on here, about how moffat has recycled all the ideas that seemed "fresh" the first time he used them. very good comparison's, even if you do like moffat.
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Rust
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PostSubject: Re: For those who don't like moffat.....   Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:27 pm

My takes on the "tropes":

Quote :
The Doctor tells scary aliens to go away.

Why not?

I mean really...why not cash in your reputation with the Intergalactic Community as "Last of the Time Lords" to avoid confrontations? We're not in the early days of the character anymore. The Doctor's "Big" in Galactic Affairs (Heck, the Shadow Proclamation all but begged him to lead them into battle), so why not take it and run with it?

And it's not like Moffat is the only one using this particular piece of writing. Nine taunts the Daleks about his "Oncoming Storm" status in their mythology, and Ten went on his "Time Lord Victorious" power trip. Not to mention the "I'm Kinda a Big Deal" Infostamp on him during "The Next Doctor".


Quote :
Someone stops a deadly machine by admitting to their true feelings.

This one's slightly a misnomer. The Doctor didn't prevent Brackwell from exploding - Amy did. The Doctor focused on the man's Pain. Amy went for the Love. It's the same thing that happened with "The Beast Below".

As for "Amy's Choice", it completely ignores the fact she didn't escape the Dream World. That her choice was a consequence of the situation, not endemic to the situation itself. The Doctor rescued them from the Dream World by detonating the TARDIS. Amy had nothing really to do with it.

And as for "The Lodger"...
Spoiler:
 



Quote :
Deadly and unknowable aliens use a dead humans's lingering remains to communicate.

This one I agree with. "Angel Bob" really was unnecessary.


Quote :

A little girl is trapped in an unreal world where she's the only one who can touch reality.

A little girl meets the Doctor, and then she sees him again as an adult, but it's only been a few minutes for him

Again, I can agree with these. Though since both have only cropped up twice, it's not exactly a "trope" yet.


Quote :
Timey-wimey cheating that actually affects the plot.

This one is one of the thinnest of arguments, because frankly...that's how Time Travel works. This happen "out of order" on occasion. And, being the Last Time Lord and answerable to no one but himself, why shouldn't he cheat a little bit when it comes to the time stream? If his past selves can help out from time to time, why not his future self? The Second Doctor would probably agree with that sentiment when it was the Sixth Doctor that kept him from being dissected. (Though to be fair, that story was really odd in terms of presentation. Lot of plot details left hanging in the wind. Like the small matter of the Sixth Doctor registering his Second Incarnation's execution....despite the fact it was a deliberate misdirection on the part of his abductors).

Further, the examples are again misrepresented a bit. "Blink" is a simple case of "Time Out of Order", much like River Song. Speaking of River, "Forest"'s resolution comes from the fact his first meeting with her is her last meeting with him. Not to mention, the Doctor figured out how to save River fairly quickly...hence why he went back to the screwdriver in the first place. He thought of it then, he just implemented it later.

The final example is also misrepresented, because it took place where Time had no literal meaning. It was how he could get away jumping around his own Time Stream. He wasn't locked into events because there technically weren't any events to be locked into.

Further, this isn't anything we haven't seen before. "Time Crash" was solved because Ten knew what to do because Five had seen Ten do it before.


Still, it is a good read. I just feel some parts are being misinterpreted.
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rdks
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PostSubject: Re: For those who don't like moffat.....   Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:59 am

bret_owen99 wrote:
http://io9.com/5576090/10-overused-doctor-who-plot-devices-wed-like-a-moratorium-on


this is a great article articulating everything i've been trying to say on here, about how moffat has recycled all the ideas that seemed "fresh" the first time he used them. very good comparison's, even if you do like moffat.

Thanks for that. Good read. I agree almost 100%.
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khana
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PostSubject: Re: For those who don't like moffat.....   Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:42 am

To me, I see it as, the Doctor is an ever-evolving, ever-developing character. He shouldn't be the same person, not entirely, in any two seasons. Every season should contribute to character development, either personally or how that character relates to the rest of the universe, or both.

Fact is, like Rust mentioned, the Doctor has gotten himself into some really big situations, and has gotten himself noticed. Is it better to be noticed? Not really... part of the point of the plot of season 5's end was the fact that he'd gotten TOO noticed... that he'd made a few too many enemies who wanted him dead.

It's not better to be known, but it's where his path has led. To me, it would seem silly to ignore that. Where he's at now, again, in my own opinion and perspective, is an interesting balance between being very, very well known in certain groups (the Daleks, the Shadow Proclamation now that they know he exists, and so forth), and being entirely unknown in other circumstances (pretty much an unknown entity for the whole of the human race, barring certain organizations, over the whole of human history, and unknown by most alien races)

It's a serious balance for his character, too... think about it. He's very casual in how he approaches life... he just wants to wander about, have fun, live it up, and help out when he can. And preferably not have the universe he's trying to enjoy spontaneously combust.

On one hand, it's annoying to hide yourself. He'll hide himself only to the degree that he feels like at that time, according to his own convenience (like his ready admission to being alien in Runaway Bride, among many, many examples). On the other, it can be very troublesome to deal with groups knowing his nature... the armies gathering at the Pandorica being clear evidence of that. Beyond that, it's just a hassle and a complication most of the time, especially for someone who's actively trying to dodge responsibilities and ties. Thus why he'd given Mickey the anti-Doctor virus. There's a constant theme of him dodging the public eye (or equivalent), responsibilities, and connections, all through the recent seasons.

But really, once the damage is done, and your nature is known, you might as well save yourself the work, and reap what benefits you may from the situation.

Plus, he's really earned the right to arrogance by this point. Is it wise to be arrogant? Not really... but he's certainly entitled to it.
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PostSubject: Re: For those who don't like moffat.....   Sun Jul 11, 2010 1:02 pm

Superb post khana. I agree. And I agree with Rust as well, but that's normal *lol*

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bret_owen99
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PostSubject: Re: For those who don't like moffat.....   Sun Jul 11, 2010 2:51 pm

you know, i like the input. the only part of rusts' post that i disagreed with was the end where he said "some parts are being misinterpreted"

i feel(yes, a feeling) that with this series anyone who defends moffat says he is misinterpreted, or misunderstood.

couldn't be that we just understand him, or interpret him differently than the people who like him, can it?
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Rust
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PostSubject: Re: For those who don't like moffat.....   Sun Jul 11, 2010 2:55 pm

bret_owen99 wrote:
you know, i like the input. the only part of rusts' post that i disagreed with was the end where he said "some parts are being misinterpreted"

i feel(yes, a feeling) that with this series anyone who defends moffat says he is misinterpreted, or misunderstood.

couldn't be that we just understand him, or interpret him differently than the people who like him, can it?

I wasn't meaning anyone on the board who disagrees with Moffat's direction. I was talking about the article's examples in question. A lot of those examples were misrepresented from what actually happened (Amy freeing everyone from the Dream World, for example). That particular one wasn't a different interpretation of events, as the events made it quite clear that "Amy's Choice" had little to do with getting out of their predicament.
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PostSubject: Re: For those who don't like moffat.....   Sun Jul 11, 2010 3:46 pm

yeah, sorry, i know what you were talking about, just had to chime in my 2 cents. "amy's choice" is actually one of my favorite episodes from this new series, but mostly due to the dreamlord.
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