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 S5E9: Cold Blood (SPOILERS)

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Rate S5E9: Cold Blood
Fantastic episode! Brilliant! Molto benne!
36%
 36% [ 12 ]
Good episode!
30%
 30% [ 10 ]
Okay/Average episode.
15%
 15% [ 5 ]
Disappointing.
18%
 18% [ 6 ]
WHAT A POOR EXCUSE FOR AN EPISODE!!
0%
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Total Votes : 33
 

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CrochetOwl
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PostSubject: Re: S5E9: Cold Blood (SPOILERS)   Sun May 30, 2010 8:14 am

About the watch the show shortly. Am not happy about the demise of Rory - would have preferred the Amy be wiped. Amy is the first companion I have ever truly disliked between the Classic and current series. Oh well. I've been watching but have yet to have a desire to re-watch any of the shows. Plus, from the looks of it, the ratings are down in the UK as well.
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PostSubject: Re: S5E9: Cold Blood (SPOILERS)   Sun May 30, 2010 8:20 am

bret_owen99 wrote:
i blam rory for not watching the prisoner, when he was the only real companion of the doctor on the surface, so it's his goofy fault she died.

Rory is not responsible for the poor choice made by another adult.
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PostSubject: Re: S5E9: Cold Blood (SPOILERS)   Sun May 30, 2010 9:34 am

^o^CORVUS^o^ wrote:
bret_owen99 wrote:
i blam rory for not watching the prisoner, when he was the only real companion of the doctor on the surface, so it's his goofy fault she died.

Rory is not responsible for the poor choice made by another adult.

Remember, he was giving medical aid to someone when it happened.
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PostSubject: Re: S5E9: Cold Blood (SPOILERS)   Sun May 30, 2010 11:00 am

you all want to give rory excuses for not watching the prisoner, go ahead. i just know i would criticize the doctor if he did the same thing(let someone else watch the prisoner, give medical aid instead of making sure the most important thing was being watched).

then there's the issue of only amrose being the villain. remember by the end of the episode, she talked her father into starting the drill again(way to drop the ball again rory, what was he doing that time, tying his shoelaces?). yes, some of the lizards were bad, but i think this episode clearly leaned on the side that we"people" are stupid apes who cannot control our emotions. it happened when amrose shocked the silurian not once, but twice. it showed it when she easily talked her father into starting the drill again, even though he knew better.

and this episode really showed it when it killed off a character we don't really know. i'm sorry, as mysterlad would say, i'm just having a disconnect between the doctor and his companions this year. i don't like amy(she's got so many complexes it's not even funny). i don't know why the doctor kept her around after amy's choice(when the dreamlord stated that they both had feelings for each other). rory, and i know everyone hates me for saying it, is a dumb goofball who was never going to get the girl, and only good act in the show was to save the doctor, the guy he's fighting with for the love of his life.

no one this season is making any sense. not the doctor, not the companions, and give it time, and i say not the crack. i go back to my colin baker statements i've made before. his first year was enough to almost get the series cancelled, then they brought it back, but it was too late. too many people had made up they're mind about him, and the show. they had to start from scratch with mccoy. i'm not saying it needs to go that far, but someone in charge needs to recognize that things aren't going as well as they had planned. especially if you alienate the audience by killing off someone, and potentially never bringing them back.

the only worse thing (imo) would be that they really do blow-up the tardis at the end of this series, and next series we see the doctor without the tardis, trying to put it back together(ala the key to time).
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PostSubject: Re: S5E9: Cold Blood (SPOILERS)   Sun May 30, 2010 3:32 pm

Since I still haven't seen any (but love the info), it seems more like The 8th Drs novels, where The TARDIS blew up, a piece of it (and The Dr) were sent to the past, for it to re-grow, and for his memories to return.

That's all I remember.

But, with the new control room (unless The BBC decided it's WAY TOO MUCH, so break it all down, and start over with the classic, smaller room), I doubt it.

Heck, the time when the TARDIS came apart, and Zoe was clinging... to the console!

Giggity!
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PostSubject: Re: S5E9: Cold Blood (SPOILERS)   Sun May 30, 2010 4:06 pm

Bret, I think if anything, this episode showed that the women of both species are the bad ones! Amrose and the military Silurian whose name I forgot!

That has pretty much been my thinking for years!!

And don't tell my girlfriend I said that!!

Seriously, maybe it is a mother instinct protecting their young/tribe.

Amagon, if the TARDIS breaks apart, will we get a shot of Amy clinging to the console like Zoe??
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PostSubject: Re: S5E9: Cold Blood (SPOILERS)   Sun May 30, 2010 4:09 pm

Please, lets refrain from gender wars.

Badness exists on all levels no matter if you're male or female or if you're alien or from earth.

What counts is what is in a person's heart and what that person chooses to do with those feelings. Gender does not matter.
~
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PostSubject: Re: S5E9: Cold Blood (SPOILERS)   Sun May 30, 2010 5:23 pm

^o^CORVUS^o^ wrote:
bret_owen99 wrote:
i blam rory for not watching the prisoner, when he was the only real companion of the doctor on the surface, so it's his goofy fault she died.

Rory is not responsible for the poor choice made by another adult.

i see his point here. with something so important as this crisis clearly was to all of them, with the stakes so high i would have made sure to keep a eye on everyone at all times as much as possible. or i would have taken over the watch totally. with my fiance's life at stake i wouldn't have taken any chances. and if anything would have happened i would have always blamed myself.
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PostSubject: Re: S5E9: Cold Blood (SPOILERS)   Sun May 30, 2010 5:31 pm

Perhaps Rory didn't really think that she would kill the Silurian. Perhaps Rory was a bit too trusting... perhaps he feared that the person he was tending to would be the one to kill the Silurian more than the mother... or maybe he kept away out of fear that maybe he would be the one to kill the Silurian out of desperation to save Amy.
~
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PostSubject: Re: S5E9: Cold Blood (SPOILERS)   Sun May 30, 2010 5:54 pm

All this blame leveled against Rory is misdirection. Should he have watched more closely? Yes, in hindsight he should have. But he could have been watching the Silurian like a hawk, and if Ambrose had been that determined to kill her, she could have knocked Rory out, distracted him, anything.

The fact is that it was still an adult that made the choice to commit murder. The fault lies squarely with Ambrose. By blaming Rory for the crime she committed, you avoid placing the blame on the shoulders of the person who deserves it, and I would hope that you don't judge real people by the same standard.

And Bret, your statements about the direction of the show and the dissatisfaction of the viewers really doesn't square with the ratings figures thus far. Your personal feelings about this season (and its possible resolution) are evidence of only how you feel, and not how the viewers at large feel.

As far as 'hating' you goes, its rather silly to think we hate you for your opinion. Anyone who would hate you for an opinion about a fictional TV series isn't worth bothering with or thinking about. I, and others, disagree, but disagreement doesn't equal hatred.

You are welcome to your opinion of course, but keep in mind that opinions are not fact. I'm sorry that this season seems to be so unsatisfying to you, but there are many of us who are greatly enjoying it.
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PostSubject: Re: S5E9: Cold Blood (SPOILERS)   Sun May 30, 2010 5:59 pm

Rory would have gotten tased... that's for certain.

And if he did, there's little that he can do until he can recover enough to stop her... and if Ambrose was that pissed off and wanting her family back and her father saved, seeing Rory get taken down wouldn't have phased her at all.

In fact, I'm fairly confident that the Silurian... WHO HAD A DEATH-WISH... would have used that to anger her even more. Also, let's not forget that the Silurian basically came up there to die. She knew that she wasn't going back. She purposely goaded Ambrose, knowing that this mother had everything to lose by not acting... the Silurian wanted to die... in fact, she let herself die. She purposefully died...

I'm not blame-shifting, but you can't pin the blame on just one person or even Rory.
~
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PostSubject: Re: S5E9: Cold Blood (SPOILERS)   Sun May 30, 2010 6:05 pm

a1cmustangpilot wrote:
Perhaps Rory didn't really think that she would kill the Silurian. Perhaps Rory was a bit too trusting... perhaps he feared that the person he was tending to would be the one to kill the Silurian more than the mother... or maybe he kept away out of fear that maybe he would be the one to kill the Silurian out of desperation to save Amy.
~
and if this was the case and that's how rory saw things and say thats how i saw things i would still feel a tremendous amount of guilt if i stopped and thought about everything that happened and i would again blame myself for how bad things turned. but perhaps he didn't see things that way. in the end there's no right or wrong here it's all on points of views.
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PostSubject: Re: S5E9: Cold Blood (SPOILERS)   Sun May 30, 2010 6:13 pm

denali76c wrote:
a1cmustangpilot wrote:
Perhaps Rory didn't really think that she would kill the Silurian. Perhaps Rory was a bit too trusting... perhaps he feared that the person he was tending to would be the one to kill the Silurian more than the mother... or maybe he kept away out of fear that maybe he would be the one to kill the Silurian out of desperation to save Amy.
~
and if this was the case and that's how rory saw things and say thats how i saw things i would still feel a tremendous amount of guilt if i stopped and thought about everything that happened and i would again blame myself for how bad things turned. but perhaps he didn't see things that way. in the end there's no right or wrong here it's all on points of views.

There would be guilt on all sides. The "should of", "could of", "would of" that we all feel when something doesn't quite go according to plan. We can say all we want, "Well, he should have done this..." but the thing is, we all respond differently to situations. No one is perfect. And it's one thing to say, "Well if I was in that situation I would have done this.," but the truth is, we don't know how we're going to react in most instances until we get put into that situation.

If Rory had lived, and Ambrose, the father, and Rory were all taken to court on the blame for the Silurian's death, it would be Ambrose who would have to face the consequences of the death itself, not Rory. He didn't kill her. He had no thoughts of killing her. His misake was trusting Ambrose with watching over her. They were taking shifts.

Ambrose failed the Doctor. She failed her family. She failed the Silurians. She failed all of humanity.

It's really unfair to put all that blame on Rory when what he didn't do is something that ANY ONE OF US COULD HAVE DONE AS WELL... it's seriously not that simple or that fair.

Rory gave Ambrose the opportunity to prove her self worth... and she failed. People don't always have an opportunity to watch each other's back all the time... we're responsible for our own personal actions and our thoughts. Why shift the blame onto someone else? Ambrose isn't a child... she didn't need someone to hold her hand and put her on time out... she is a bonafide adult human being and should be held responsible for her actions.

She could have been the only one there... and she still would have killed the Silurian.
~
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PostSubject: Re: S5E9: Cold Blood (SPOILERS)   Sun May 30, 2010 6:17 pm

"All this blame leveled against Rory is misdirection. Should he have watched more closely? Yes, in hindsight he should have. But he could have been watching the Silurian like a hawk, and if Ambrose had been that determined to kill her, she could have knocked Rory out, distracted him, anything.

The fact is that it was still an adult that made the choice to commit murder. The fault lies squarely with Ambrose. By blaming Rory for the crime she committed, you avoid placing the blame on the shoulders of the person who deserves it, and I would hope that you don't judge real people by the same standard."
i didn't say i blamed rory for the death the silurian. gulit and blame art not same. and i don't think blame can be so easily defined. it's all on how you look at things. everyone is different.
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PostSubject: Re: S5E9: Cold Blood (SPOILERS)   Sun May 30, 2010 6:27 pm

a1cmustangpilot wrote:
denali76c wrote:
a1cmustangpilot wrote:
Perhaps Rory didn't really think that she would kill the Silurian. Perhaps Rory was a bit too trusting... perhaps he feared that the person he was tending to would be the one to kill the Silurian more than the mother... or maybe he kept away out of fear that maybe he would be the one to kill the Silurian out of desperation to save Amy.
~
and if this was the case and that's how rory saw things and say thats how i saw things i would still feel a tremendous amount of guilt if i stopped and thought about everything that happened and i would again blame myself for how bad things turned. but perhaps he didn't see things that way. in the end there's no right or wrong here it's all on points of views.

There would be guilt on all sides. The "should of", "could of", "would of" that we all feel when something doesn't quite go according to plan. We can say all we want, "Well, he should have done this..." but the thing is, we all respond differently to situations. No one is perfect. And it's one thing to say, "Well if I was in that situation I would have done this.," but the truth is, we don't know how we're going to react in most instances until we get put into that situation.

If Rory had lived, and Ambrose, the father, and Rory were all taken to court on the blame for the Silurian's death, it would be Ambrose who would have to face the consequences of the death itself, not Rory. He didn't kill her. He had no thoughts of killing her. His misake was trusting Ambrose with watching over her. They were taking shifts.

Ambrose failed the Doctor. She failed her family. She failed the Silurians. She failed all of humanity.

It's really unfair to put all that blame on Rory when what he didn't do is something that ANY ONE OF US COULD HAVE DONE AS WELL... it's seriously not that simple or that fair.

Rory gave Ambrose the opportunity to prove her self worth... and she failed. People don't always have an opportunity to watch each other's back all the time... we're responsible for our own personal actions and our thoughts. Why shift the blame onto someone else? Ambrose isn't a child... she didn't need someone to hold her hand and put her on time out... she is a bonafide adult human being and should be held responsible for her actions.

She could have been the only one there... and she still would have killed the Silurian.
~
i never stated i blamed rory for the death of the silurian, cause i don't, i only stated if i were in his place i would blame myself. i think this is a commom thing people do where "we" tend to blame ourselves for things we maybe shouldn't. though i do agree with bret that rory could have done more, and he should feel some guilt but that's just how i see things and i can certainly see your points.
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PostSubject: Re: S5E9: Cold Blood (SPOILERS)   Sun May 30, 2010 6:53 pm

a1cmustangpilot wrote:
Please, lets refrain from gender wars.

Badness exists on all levels no matter if you're male or female or if you're alien or from earth.

What counts is what is in a person's heart and what that person chooses to do with those feelings. Gender does not matter.
~

Sorry, I was kidding about first part, but like I said I still think it may have been a mother instinct thing. Protecting your young/tribe.
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PostSubject: Re: S5E9: Cold Blood (SPOILERS)   Sun May 30, 2010 7:06 pm

denali76c wrote:
a1cmustangpilot wrote:
denali76c wrote:
a1cmustangpilot wrote:
Perhaps Rory didn't really think that she would kill the Silurian. Perhaps Rory was a bit too trusting... perhaps he feared that the person he was tending to would be the one to kill the Silurian more than the mother... or maybe he kept away out of fear that maybe he would be the one to kill the Silurian out of desperation to save Amy.
~
and if this was the case and that's how rory saw things and say thats how i saw things i would still feel a tremendous amount of guilt if i stopped and thought about everything that happened and i would again blame myself for how bad things turned. but perhaps he didn't see things that way. in the end there's no right or wrong here it's all on points of views.

There would be guilt on all sides. The "should of", "could of", "would of" that we all feel when something doesn't quite go according to plan. We can say all we want, "Well, he should have done this..." but the thing is, we all respond differently to situations. No one is perfect. And it's one thing to say, "Well if I was in that situation I would have done this.," but the truth is, we don't know how we're going to react in most instances until we get put into that situation.

If Rory had lived, and Ambrose, the father, and Rory were all taken to court on the blame for the Silurian's death, it would be Ambrose who would have to face the consequences of the death itself, not Rory. He didn't kill her. He had no thoughts of killing her. His misake was trusting Ambrose with watching over her. They were taking shifts.

Ambrose failed the Doctor. She failed her family. She failed the Silurians. She failed all of humanity.

It's really unfair to put all that blame on Rory when what he didn't do is something that ANY ONE OF US COULD HAVE DONE AS WELL... it's seriously not that simple or that fair.

Rory gave Ambrose the opportunity to prove her self worth... and she failed. People don't always have an opportunity to watch each other's back all the time... we're responsible for our own personal actions and our thoughts. Why shift the blame onto someone else? Ambrose isn't a child... she didn't need someone to hold her hand and put her on time out... she is a bonafide adult human being and should be held responsible for her actions.

She could have been the only one there... and she still would have killed the Silurian.
~
i never stated i blamed rory for the death of the silurian, cause i don't, i only stated if i were in his place i would blame myself. i think this is a commom thing people do where "we" tend to blame ourselves for things we maybe shouldn't. though i do agree with bret that rory could have done more, and he should feel some guilt but that's just how i see things and i can certainly see your points.

I can understand the whole aspect of putting ourselves in that place and saying "I would do this if that were me", but at the same time, the one thing we don't really get in this episode is how Rory actually felt about the whole situation. Sure we see some of his reactions, but at the same time, his outward expression may not have matched his inner feelings. For all we know, he could have felt guilty for failing to protect Alaya, but due to the situation he couldn't afford to let it show. He still had to show the Doctor that he could be counted on to keep a level head under pressure and do what was asked of him.
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PostSubject: Re: S5E9: Cold Blood (SPOILERS)   Sun May 30, 2010 7:16 pm

denali76c wrote:

i didn't say i blamed rory for the death the silurian. gulit and blame art not same. and i don't think blame can be so easily defined. it's all on how you look at things. everyone is different.

My statement was pretty much directed completely at Bret, not you. He was the one who was assigning needless fault to Rory.

In the case we're discussing, blame is rather easy to assign because it was fiction and we were all witnesses to how the story unfolded. We enjoy a view that few do IRL, and in this case, the blame lays squarely on Ambrose. She made the choice to take the life of another. She's the one with the figurative blood on her hands. At least that's the way I look at things from my particular perspective.

But as you say, everyone is different, and your mileage may vary.

As for how Rory felt, he didn't really have time to show it. Had things unfolded differently, I'm sure it would have weighed on him.
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PostSubject: Re: S5E9: Cold Blood (SPOILERS)   Sun May 30, 2010 7:44 pm

Hmm...good episode or bad episode, here we are after a two-parter with the Silurians in it, discussing ethics and responsibility. Which is, and always has been, precisely the goal with Silurian-related stories.

Mission accomplished, Doctor Who cast and crew!
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PostSubject: Re: S5E9: Cold Blood (SPOILERS)   Sun May 30, 2010 7:56 pm

Indeed. And if nothing else, this 2-parter sure got the discussions a-rollin' Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: S5E9: Cold Blood (SPOILERS)   Sun May 30, 2010 8:00 pm

Overall this was a very good story. Even the fact that these Silurians didn't have the third eye didn't stop me from enjoying it like I did. I found myself getting highly emotional when Rory was killed and erased from all of existence including Amy's memories. Got the feeling this has a little to do with my long term relationship coming to an end three months ago though. I also have the feeling that Rory will return as well going by the rumours I have read.

Question, what happened to the engagement ring???
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PostSubject: Re: S5E9: Cold Blood (SPOILERS)   Sun May 30, 2010 9:25 pm

corvus, i don't want to start a war with you, or with anyone else on this board. my opinions are just that, my opinions, and i have the right to state them as i see fit. if i feel the show is going in a bad direction this series, that's the way i see it, and i will express myself next year if i feel the same way there too.

as far as placing needless fault on rory, that is also my opinion. i would count rory as an accomplice since he stood by and let murder happen. sorry. that's just my opinion. if you don't like it, fine. but i feel(and yes, i know this is just a fictional show), that if you are the only representative of a time travelling group who is supposed to put things right, then you make sure things go right.
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PostSubject: Re: S5E9: Cold Blood (SPOILERS)   Sun May 30, 2010 9:49 pm

jfh1970 wrote:
Question, what happened to the engagement ring???

That is a good question. The last we see of it, the Doctor found it and put it in his coat pocket so Amy couldn't/wouldn't find it. In regards to Rory not existing it is possible the ring jut disappeared.
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PostSubject: Re: S5E9: Cold Blood (SPOILERS)   Sun May 30, 2010 10:04 pm

I'll have to watch the story again. I remember thinking at one point that the Doctor was going to show Amy the ring and then she would retain her memories of Rory. Perhaps when she meets Rory again she won't remember him still and that's when the ring will appear and resolve the issue.
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PostSubject: Re: S5E9: Cold Blood (SPOILERS)   Sun May 30, 2010 10:08 pm

jfh1970 wrote:
I'll have to watch the story again. I remember thinking at one point that the Doctor was going to show Amy the ring and then she would retain her memories of Rory. Perhaps when she meets Rory again she won't remember him still and that's when the ring will appear and resolve the issue.

I think when he initially found it that was his intention, but at the same time, he didn't want to cause her more pain by making her remember him dying. He wanted her to remember the good times they had, and showing Amy the ring would just cause her too much pain.
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