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 End of Time Question...

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Christian
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PostSubject: End of Time Question...   Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:06 am

I posted this question on another form thought I would ask it here too...

The Doctor tells the Master about the Time War and this was why he ended it. Does it seem to give too much validity to the Doctor's actions now? Now he seems to have had a reason to stop both sides where before it was more like... he needed to stop the Daleks and the Time Lords were just caught in the crossfire and thus the Doctor is emotionally scarred and troubled...

Does this steal away from the tradgedy of the Doctor? And of all things unanswered, did we really need Time War clarification?

Any thoughts, anyone?
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memnoch
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PostSubject: Re: End of Time Question...   Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:21 am

Hmm.. I can see your point, though does it have to steal away from his tragedy? Can't it make it even more tragic that he had to commit genocide/destroy his own race, to save the universe?
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Christian
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PostSubject: Re: End of Time Question...   Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:24 am

I can't agree with that look only cause it's the Doctor... if it's bad it must be stopped. He's never had an remorse before for stopping his own kind.

Now, I do see your point when he points out the Gallifrey of the final days of the Time War weren't the Time Lords everyone knew and loved... changed by war like in most cases.
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jonwes
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PostSubject: Re: End of Time Question...   Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:56 am

I think "stopping" and "genocide" are rather different though, surely? I think it actually adds to the tragedy. Not only did he have to kill his own race along with the Daleks, but he had to face what they had become.

I actually liked that the Time Lords were kind of creeps. It gels a lot better with their depiction in the classic series where they were well on their way to creepsville.
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CJSchmidt
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PostSubject: Re: End of Time Question...   Sat Jan 02, 2010 5:35 am

I find it even more tragic. His planet didn't die a noble death saving the universe from the evils of the Time War - they ended up a bunch of crazy cowards who would destroy the universe before sacrificing themselves. That's how he has to remember them - even if he doesn't want to.
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Christian
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PostSubject: Re: End of Time Question...   Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:06 am

See in my Doctor Who world... he already knew the Time Lords went down hill a point driven home in the 8th Doctor books. President Romana had even become consumed with the idea of war.

Someone had said the Doctor showed some signs of Hero worship of the Times Lords and that makes sense, remembering them as he wanted too but I don't know it just seemed so... like... to much to fast. To convienent for my tastes. Almost lets him off the hook in a sense.
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PostSubject: Re: End of Time Question...   Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:35 am

It sure changes how we view the character.
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Evil Monkey Pope
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PostSubject: Re: End of Time Question...   Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:14 am

The 9th Doctor said the Timelords all burned with the Daleks. Why would he lie about that? He's been openly disdainful of the Timelords before so why cover for them? Or were the events of this episode just prior to 8 killing them all? I wanted a good explanation of how he could've killed them all off in a single stroke during the Time War too. The time lock is really ineffective if they can keep sending retcons through it. Genocide really has no meaning in the Whoniverse since the Daleks and Timelords won't stop returning.
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terrasolo
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PostSubject: Re: End of Time Question...   Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:05 am

Evil Monkey Pope wrote:
The 9th Doctor said the Timelords all burned with the Daleks. Why would he lie about that? He's been openly disdainful of the Timelords before so why cover for them? Or were the events of this episode just prior to 8 killing them all? I wanted a good explanation of how he could've killed them all off in a single stroke during the Time War too. The time lock is really ineffective if they can keep sending retcons through it. Genocide really has no meaning in the Whoniverse since the Daleks and Timelords won't stop returning.

I don't think he did lie.
Spoiler:
 
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jonwes
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PostSubject: Re: End of Time Question...   Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:45 pm

Yep, terrasolo has it right. It's all about the timing. Smile
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Christian
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PostSubject: Re: End of Time Question...   Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:50 pm

That makes sense. They're trying to escape their firey fate and failed to. And
Spoiler:
 
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terrasolo
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PostSubject: Re: End of Time Question...   Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:05 pm

Christian wrote:
That makes sense. They're trying to escape their firey fate and failed to. And
Spoiler:
 

While I doubt
Spoiler:
 
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Christian
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PostSubject: Re: End of Time Question...   Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:11 pm

Oh I doubt it too...
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CJSchmidt
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PostSubject: Re: End of Time Question...   Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:27 pm

Gallifrey existed outside the time lock for what, 5-10 minutes? Who knows what manner of things hopped off and held on when it got pulled back. RTD left lots of little holes (similar to the Master's ring) for future writers to do their work without being locked in by previous stories.
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amagon
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PostSubject: Re: End of Time Question...   Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:03 pm

http://io9.com/5439138/figuring-out-doctor-whos-lingering-mysteries
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PostSubject: Re: End of Time Question...   Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:04 pm

I also have a question about this episode. How and why did the Master become hungry all the time and what's with the changes in his body? Those lost me!!! confused
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ReverendKain
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PostSubject: Re: End of Time Question...   Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:12 pm

It's cause Mrs. Saxon made the resurrection go bad with her magic sauce. Essentially.
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bret_owen99
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PostSubject: Re: End of Time Question...   Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:32 pm

what the reverend said, doctor88. the master's new body was messed up. it was dying all the time, and he had to keep eating to keep alive. sooner, or later, though, the body was going to give out, he knew that. that's one of the reasons, i think, he wanted to bring the timelords back. so either they could fix him, or he could steal one of their bodies(unlike the human bodies he had stolen which were fragile, and didn't have regenerations). one of my favorite scenes from the specials was simm facing down dalton, redeeming himself, saving the doctor. some people may say that's not how the master acts, but in every story i've seen, the master will fight any evil that is greater than he, and dalton fit that bill.
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greenk9
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PostSubject: Re: End of Time Question...   Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:40 pm

well the master dying on/off sort of was a nod methinks to the deadly assassin. His life was burned up...yet crispy master managed to survive...see the keeper of traken.

My stupid theory is that the time lords could come back via the matrix...no not the k, reeves matrix...the time lord matrix...that stored the life juice so to speak of dead time lords. Man I must lay off the nyquil for allergies....
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ReverendKain
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PostSubject: Re: End of Time Question...   Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:42 pm

No, no, nyquil is your friend! More specifically, dextromethorphan is your friend! Hallucinations for all! cheers Shocked
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