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 Question(s) About Regeneration

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Clavius
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PostSubject: Question(s) About Regeneration   Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:33 pm

I'm a long-time Who fan, but there are many episodes I have never seen. With the launch of the new series you could say I'm a born-again Whovian and may as well be a newbie with all the catching up I have to do.

There's a couple aspects about regeneration I need clarification on. I had always assumed that regeneration was an involuntary response within a time lord's body to heal itself when it has been damaged too severely and the time lord had no real control over it.

However in "Last of the Time Lords" The Doctor keeps urging The Master to regenerate after Lucy shoots him and The Master refuses and dies. (for now anyway). So regeneration is a conscious and voluntary metabolic function?

Secondly, I recently watched "Destiny of the Daleks" and in the beginning, Romana is regenerating and trying out new bodies like someone would try on a new suit, showing each one to The Doctor for his approval. She finally settles on the appearance of Princess Astra from "The Armageddon Factor" because she liked it.

Later, in "Castrovalva" the newly regenerated 5th Doctor assesses his new appearance in the mirror and says something to the effect of "That's the problem with regeneration, you never know what you're going to get."

Leap ahead to "Journey's End" Doctor Ten shoots all of the regeneration energy into his severed hand and tells Rose and co that he didn't want to change, saying "why should I? look at me!" (lol). This sort of ties back to the voluntary bodyswapping Romana does.

So to the more experienced whovians out there what are your thoughts? Can you cite examples from other episodes to back up either scenario?

Regeneration - voluntary or not?

Physical change - voluntary or not?

Yes, I know ultimately these are continuity errors within the show, because it's so hard to maintain it on a 45 year old show, but I was curious to see what other fans think.

(or perhaps I've been thinking about it too much)
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PostSubject: Re: Question(s) About Regeneration   Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:12 pm

In the case of our favorite timelord, it is usually due to a traumatic situation, and hence he really has no control over it.

:doc1: The first regeneration was due to his body "wearing a bit thin" :doc2:

:doc2: The second was imposed by the Timelords so it was beyond his control. :doc3:

:doc3: The third was due to radiation poisoning from the Metebelis crystals :doc4:

:doc4: The fourth was from a fall from the gantry of the pharos project radio telescope :doc5:

:doc5: The fifth was caused by Spectrox Toxaemia (poisoning) :doc6:

:doc6: The sixth was caused by Michael Grade - Lets be honest that was the reason, that whole "the Rani caused the Doctor to hit his head on the console when she drew the TARDIS off course was a load of rubbish! :doc7:
( I am aware of the theory that was presented in a novel, but I never read them, and we didnt see that on screen, so as far as canon, what we see is how it happened. )

:doc7: The seventh was caused from complications from gunshot wounds when the physician wasnt familiar with Timelord Anatomy. :doc8:

:doc8: The eighth is unknown, stress from the final act of destroying the Daleks and the Timelords? :doc9:

:doc9: The ninth was after he absorbed the time vortex to save Rose's life. :doc10:

Most Timelords just sit back and regenerate. The Master is a definite exception.

I always thought Romana's 'regeneration' was a bit of a joke. I try to think of them as a 'preview' of her final choice. Perhaps when a regeneration is stable they are able to project the image over their body for very short periods of time, a bit like the chameleon circuit projects the image field of a TARDIS

These are just my thoughts on the matter and have no basis in Timelord fact. scratch

Let the fun begin! lol! jocolor
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Clavius
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PostSubject: Re: Question(s) About Regeneration   Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:24 pm

I love your regeneration run-down there. Nice work and thanks! You humble me sir. (Incidentally, I do know real story behind the 6 to 7 regen and agree completely with your take on it)

I also think your Romana theory at the end there is pretty solid, I like it.

Incidentally, there had been a rumor floating around some time back that John Simm would step in as The Doctor once David Tennant hands over the role.

IF (BIG if) this were to happen (I doubt it will), then Perhaps like Romana, Ten would be choosing the appearance of a former friend and the second-to-last Timelord as a kind of tribute?
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PostSubject: Re: Question(s) About Regeneration   Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:25 pm

In logopolis you had the watcher who turned out to be sort of a walking cocoon for the 5th doctor. Oddly enough logopolis was the first episode I saw Sunday night at 11 in Chicago. I have been a who fan ever since. Oh dear I was um 9 at the time...
wow where has all the time gone?
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PostSubject: Re: Question(s) About Regeneration   Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:09 am

I was watching Castrovalva and Logopolis tonight by the way. I am putting together the Zero Room action theater diorama and wanted some reference.

I asked myself that in regards to the last five years of my life. Where has all the time gone, and how did I waste it all so quickly?

I was about 9 when I first saw who in Kansas. Planet of Evil was my first one. I liked when Channel 11 showed the program on Sunday mornings also. I remember Invasion of Time being shown like that.
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PostSubject: Re: Question(s) About Regeneration   Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:52 am

I think the whole thing hinges on the timelord or timelady. In Romana's case the back of it is simply an actress change and a way to explain how she looks like someone in such a recent story. But on the front of it, it shows that the energy they display during regeneration can be triggered by will alone or only when needed. The point that was made at some time* was that during the time of Rassilon it was imposed that each timelord/lady would be allowed only 12 regenerations and no more than 12. Giving the idea that they could regenerate as many as they wanted, it was a choice to stop at 12. The changes of Romana's appearance and later the display of regrowing a hand by the 10th doctor, both show that the regeneration energy can be controlled if so chosen.

So with these thoughts, why have we seen the Doctor display the air of never choosing an appearance or not controlling it until the 10th? I personally think it goes to the same reason he still likes to let the Tardis pick it's places, he enjoys the random and the thrill of the unknown. It's a part of the core of who the Doctor is, despite his appearance.

*In the deadly assassin it is stated that they can only regenerate 12 times, which was imposed by rassillon. In The Brain of Morbius, TB states that they chose not to live forever, which implies that the 12 thing is by choice.
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DoctorOlly
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PostSubject: Re: Question(s) About Regeneration   Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:29 pm

Hoosier Whovian wrote:


:doc4: The fourth was from a fall from the gantry of the pharos project radio telescope :doc5:

I saw this episode again, and I thought what a rubbish way for one of the best Docs of all time to die, I mean, it was absolutely rubbish compared to the others (apart from the 1st, obv.)
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Dalek Thay
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PostSubject: Re: Question(s) About Regeneration   Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:50 pm

DoctorOlly wrote:
Hoosier Whovian wrote:


:doc4: The fourth was from a fall from the gantry of the pharos project radio telescope :doc5:

I saw this episode again, and I thought what a rubbish way for one of the best Docs of all time to die, I mean, it was absolutely rubbish compared to the others (apart from the 1st, obv.)

Well, yes and no. I mean it is kind of sad to see him go but he did just save the Universe and so it wasn't all bad. :doc4: - :doc5:
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LakeErieMonster
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PostSubject: Re: Question(s) About Regeneration   Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:14 pm

I like the controlled theory. I would imagine that being the case it should take imense concentration therefore, it the case of poisonings a la 3/4 and certain trauma 6/7 it would be too hard too concentrate and the doc just let it run its course. nice and simple........?
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Evil Monkey Pope
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PostSubject: Re: Question(s) About Regeneration   Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:13 am

The Master choosing to not regenerate is both bollocks and out of character.
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DoctorOlly
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PostSubject: Re: Question(s) About Regeneration   Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:23 am

Evil Monkey Pope wrote:
The Master choosing to not regenerate is both bollocks and out of character.

Well, my theory is that it was all a plan, because we weren't given a reason for why Lucy shot him and as you said, its out of character for the Master, so I think they had it planned from the start, maybe the Master was going to die, and before talked to a an unknown ally (at the moment) to make a huge plan and so the Doctor can't stop it, and at the peak of it all, the Master comes back... affraid
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amagon
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PostSubject: Re: Question(s) About Regeneration   Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:49 am

If (per the original Human Nature) The Doctor's mind was put into a cricket ball (as all New Adventures fall into the Bottle Universe), then the pocket watches for the shows, it could be possible this was done again, but into the ring.
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LakeErieMonster
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PostSubject: Re: Question(s) About Regeneration   Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:49 pm

clever possibilty
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greenk9
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PostSubject: Re: Question(s) About Regeneration   Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:28 pm

amagon- your theory seems quite possible.
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PostSubject: Re: Question(s) About Regeneration   Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:42 pm

Thank you both! Being an exiled Time Lord myself....

With a friend (who is a walking DW encyclopedia), and of course the love of Sherlock Holmes, to focus on the ring at the end, knowing all the facts we know about how they did what they did, hence, The Master COULDN'T regenerate, and... did Lucy have red finger nail polish???

Of course, it's interesting how they decided not to bring about the idea the deathworm of The Morgs, but as my friend told me, The Master may have been pulled from another point in time....
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