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 413: Journey's End

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Rate this episode
Fantastic!
62%
 62% [ 16 ]
Pretty Good
8%
 8% [ 2 ]
Average
23%
 23% [ 6 ]
Disappointing
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Horrible
7%
 7% [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 26
 

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gregtdj
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PostSubject: 413: Journey's End   Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:01 pm

413: Journey's End

Please keep in mind that that this episode has already aired in the UK. This thread will probably contain LOTS of spoilers. If you don't want to ruin the fun, you may want to come back once the episode airs on SciFi in a few weeks.


The above is the usual warning, but I want to add that this episode is the second half of the two part season finale, so please, please do not read or consider reading or posting in here until you've seen this episode as there will be lots and lots and lots of spoilers being discussed by those who have seen it. You have been overly warned.
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jonwes
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PostSubject: Re: 413: Journey's End   Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:47 pm

I don't even know how to rate it yet. I need to watch it again. It was definitely different then what I was expecting.
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timlord
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PostSubject: Re: 413: Journey's End   Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:01 pm

I TOTALLY loved it!I know each character has its own fans who were routing for them,so i think the ending should satisfy those who love rose and hate her. The only thing I wasnt happy about was quickie preview of upcoming xmas special,them again? I'm not sure these continual revists of same nemisis is appealing to me.But I think when new guy gets the rains it will be different. I'm hoping they will be on earth less and visit the time war story,would love to see other aliens from the past!
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PostSubject: GREAT   Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:26 pm

Great Episode. Definitely better after a second watching. I like how the loose ends were tied up concerning alot of the companions. I thought the "regeneration" was a little bit of a cop-out. Also the deaths that aren't really deaths are getting a bit old too. I loved the rest. Davros was outstanding. I'll miss Catherine Tate, she really took me by surprise this season but I'll really miss Bernard Cribbins. His scene at the end with the Doctor was fantastic! Torchwood should be interesting this upcoming season.
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PostSubject: Re: 413: Journey's End   Sun Jul 06, 2008 6:27 am

i loved the...
Spoiler:
 
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greenk9
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PostSubject: Re: 413: Journey's End   Sun Jul 06, 2008 12:00 pm

well a few of my theories about donna came true...finally I guessed right. gregtdj really is the winner on the guesses- pretty much spot on!

After browsing many forums- because I have a cold and needing distracting- the general consensus seems that people were satisfied with this episode. Call me an old romantic but I liked how they tied up lose ends with donna, rose, martha, sarah and jack. The scene of all the companions around the tardis sort of made me a little sad because these great characters most likely will not visit the doctor again. Some people really hate RTD- but this year he pulled out the stops and did not let me down. I am sad that he is leaving mainly because I have been a fan since 83...and that long 18 year gap of no who...Iam forever grateful to him. Love him or hate him...he brought who back...ratings and commercial success along with some very memorarable moments. I still remember buying a british pal format dvd of series 1 and having it converted to us format- sitting in front of my dvd player and seeing rose for the first time. I was blown away and still feel really happy that after 4 years it is still reinventing itself...season 4 was very very good. Christmas is way too long of a wait but 2010 will be an eternity.
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CrochetOwl
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PostSubject: Re: 413: Journey's End   Sun Jul 06, 2008 12:06 pm

I enjoyed it and will definitely miss Catherine Tate on the show. She was a refreshing change to both Rose and Martha. Basically what you would expect from RTD (e.g., big extravaganza with everything thrown in). The ending was sad and the lonely angel is once more (everyone else seemed to have a happy ending). Six months until the next special.
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DoctorOlly
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PostSubject: Re: 413: Journey's End   Sun Jul 06, 2008 1:59 pm

It was a great episode! I had to watch it a second time to make my descision. A lovely ending for Rose (I cried...) The only thing that spoiled it was the bit with the spinning Daleks, that seemed a bit silly and there wasn't enough action as I would have liked but overall it was fantastic! I wonder how the Daleks will come back next time:

Spoiler:
 
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jonwes
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PostSubject: Re: 413: Journey's End   Sun Jul 06, 2008 2:17 pm

I would be surprised if Martha and Mickey weren't a part of the show. Remember, next series of Torchwood is only 5 episodes, so even if Mickey is only there a year it wouldn't be much of a commitment for Martha.

I watched it again and I have to say I loved it overall. I still find Donna's fate heartbreaking though. I even liked the spinning Daleks and how the companions pushed them around. Very classic Who.
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CrochetOwl
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PostSubject: Re: 413: Journey's End   Sun Jul 06, 2008 3:13 pm

Mickey's presence on the eppie was almost non-existent other for the fact that it brought him back from the parallel world. As for Martha, while I enjoyed her last series, her appearances this series could have been cut and made to difference to any of the episodes.
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Clavius
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PostSubject: Re: 413: Journey's End   Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:40 pm

Anyone else think that it would have almost been better if Donna actually died in some way than having been reverted to her pre-Doctor "Runaway Bride" state?

I'm not trying to be funny, I mean I really liked her a lot as her arc progressed (I didn't even dislike her as much as most did in Runaway Bride) and she very quickly became my favorite companion of the new series.

Seeing her sobbing as The Doctor is about to erase her memories, telling her that she wanted to travel with him forever. So sad.

Then to see her on her cell, jabbering away with one of her friends nearly oblivious to The Doctor as he leaves her house was utterly heartbreaking to me.

All those great adventures she had and how much she grew as a person had to be erased to save her life. But what kind of a life was she being sent back to?

I truly hope a way can be found to bring her back someday. I know if her memory of her time with The Doctor returns, her Timelord knowledge will kill her, but Rose was supposedly locked away in an unreachable parallel dimension "forever" and yet she returned.

I really don't think we've seen the last of Donna.

I didn't much dig the clone Doctor thing and the final scene with Rose was a little to sappy for my taste (kind of ruined the farewell in "Doomsday" for me now. That was so powerfully done) but I absolutely loved everything else. (I.E. all the companions piloting the Tardis!!! Learning that it was designed to be flown by 6 pilots and The Doctor is frantically trying to fly it solo every time, neat-o!!!) Didn't quite give me the geekgasm that Stolen Earth did, but very close.

B+ for me

REGARDING THE "REGENERATION"

Let me get this straight. As long as there's a chunk of him lying around to shoot his regenerative energy into, he never need actually regenerate? And since he can apparently regrow limbs like a lizard, he can keep a virtually inexhaustable supply of hands, feet or whatever pickled in the Tardis cellar like so many canned peaches for him to blow his wad into every time he takes too much damage?

Is THIS how they will eventually get around the 12 regenerations rule started so many years ago?

Regeneration is a pretty big event in Doctor Who and should never be used as a cheap "gotcha" moment again.

To make up for screwing with us with a false regen, the real deal had better be pretty damn spectacular when it finally does happen.

Though I hope Tennant does stay on for a few more years.
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AC Rempt
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PostSubject: Re: 413: Journey's End   Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:38 am

Clavius wrote:
Regeneration is a pretty big event in Doctor Who and should never be used as a cheap "gotcha" moment again.

To make up for screwing with us with a false regen, the real deal had better be pretty damn spectacular when it finally does happen.

Though I hope Tennant does stay on for a few more years.

I was/am very annoyed by this. I know that everything should be up for grabs if it makes for a good story, but playing fast and cheap with regeneration really bothers me. I feel cheated, and that's never a good sign for a story, kinda like ending it with "and then he woke up" (which was the ending last year Wink).

When 10 finally does regenerate, it definitely needs to have a hell of a kick behind it.

As for the rest of the episode, I feel like I really need to watch both parts together. It seems like there was just too much going on to keep track of the events. Everytime we'd cut back to a character, I would think, "Oh yeah, s/he's in here, too." I so want to like it, but I dunno just yet.
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jonwes
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PostSubject: Re: 413: Journey's End   Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:22 am

Part of me does think the regeneration was a bit cheap but it got people talking/watching!

As for Donna, I almost wonder if the Doctor really shouldn't have given her a choice. I almost think she'd have chosen death over her old existence. But I think for the Doctor her life continuing was the best option, because then at least there's still a CHANCE for her discovering her potential again.
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CrochetOwl
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PostSubject: Re: 413: Journey's End   Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:20 pm

I wasn't happy about Donna's entire memory of the Doctor being wiped out by him. Just seeing how she became the annoying bride/shrew again just goes to show just how much of a positive influence he had on Donna. What would have been the problem of removing the memory just before she got the Doctor's mind. Now, they are making it so that they can never join up again and Donna really has become my fave (along with Rose).
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gregtdj
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PostSubject: Re: 413: Journey's End   Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:32 pm

gregtdj wrote:
To play devil's advocate, and because I kind of see your view on this one Calixar. If they keep the focus on Donna's character evolving from total self involvement towards personal growth like they did with Rose, and certainly with Martha, it might be alright. Donna is the type of character that you connect with or never accept. In all honesty this move does have the chance of hurting the fourth season because of the way she's received.

I wrote that way back when we first had printed word that Donna/Catherine Tate would be returning, somewhere in the ends of the series 3 discussion thread. I wrote it out of personal hope that Donna would become an acceptable character in the whoniverse. With each episode and each situation presented to her Donna did grow. She progressed to a level no companion has been on since the return of Doctor Who. To the point that she was not only his moral compass, but a perfect fit as his companion. Left Turn gave us the chance to see how her life would have been lived without the Doctor, and I guess it was a view into the world to come for her. Almost every companion left behind has had the chance to return be written back in to the Tardis, until now. This is truly the most unfair fate given to a former living companion. To never remember their journey's to live life without the times they chose to join the Doctor...truly heartbreaking. The saddest lines ever uttered....
Spoiler:
 
From one who once doubted Donna's return to be a companion, I will miss her and hope that she can return someday.
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PostSubject: Re: 413: Journey's End   Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:45 pm

Donna's fate reminded me a little of the wars games with jamie and zoe. All of those wonderful experiences and adventures with the doc and all is lost to them. Donna's tragedy to me is far greater than the Doctor's...to lose your memory is a very cruel fate. Not to be a downer and all but living with a stroke patient myself...seeing a person that was and now is not the person you knew is a hard thing to take.
The sunny side to the Donna bit is the doc really hit it on the nail...it is her mother that drags donna down...hopefully what he said to her mother will boil into her mind a bit. Mom needs to treat donna a whole lot better.

The doc/doc bit was a fine resolve to Rose...oh spoiler...sorry. Er- Rose is a great character but oh I don't mean to be mean...she is a bit shallow. Too quick to accept the blue suit version. The doc did the same treatment to sarah years back with doc 4...a drop and run. Some people really never bought into the relationship with rose but I really think he in the end, left her behind to protect her. Iam a hopeless romantic. O.k. now I am on the verge of sounding soapy but the resolve suited Rose's character. Poor Mickey...again...poor sod.
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PostSubject: Re: 413: Journey's End   Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:44 pm

just watched again...now just am a little confused or dumb...
probably both-is this doctor 11 or doctor 10.5?
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PostSubject: Re: 413: Journey's End   Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:22 pm

greenk9: technically he said he used it to heal himself but blasted the regeneration energy into the hand. I think he can affectionately be referred to as 10.5 in my opinion.

as for the ep..........WOW it had just about everything. And to get it out of the way the only huge negative was the TARDIS tow truck. Couldn't they have just wrote in some generated reality bubble or somesuch to return the earth to it's place. What my son and I really liked was the Doctor Who all-stars. If for some reason they should eventually decide to end the series I hope we could have a similar all hands on deck style episode. To me it seemed to have similar parallels with SW:ROTJ. The dark side of the Doctor. Showing how many people have died by their contact with him. Very chilling. Nice wrap up for Rose. And poor Donna. She really turned out to be a real gem of a companion.
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DoctorOlly
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PostSubject: Re: 413: Journey's End   Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:25 am

News: Freema will now not be joining Torchwood for Series 3. She was originally going to be part of the cast but is now a star of a UK version of Law and Order. Unfortunately the Series 3 scripts of Torchwood have now had to be re-written, since Freema was part of the show. Rumours are going round that BBC are trying to find her replacement. Russell T. Davies and the script writers are fuming.
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PostSubject: Re: 413: Journey's End   Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:23 pm

I liked seeing all the companions together, but at the same time it didn't feel as though there was a real reason for them to all be there. All there deus ex machina contributions were thrown away for the quasi-Doctor's deus ex machina. Maybe if some had died it would've added a little something.
I did love K-9's surprise appearance. That dog shouldn't be shunted off to some whack parallel dimension.
I didn't see the point of bringing Rose back just to send her off with quasi-Doc. It just cheapens the great conclusion to series 2.
The Dalek threat was pretty pointless since they could've substituted any aliens. Kaan saved the daleks from extinction just so that he could see them all get destroyed again? It feels like RTD brought Davros back just o have a recognizable villain without having a real purpose. What's so special about the red dalek? Why didn't they just turn off earth's atmosphere and exterminate everyone in one fell swoop? Reality bomb is a dumb name. Daleks are stupid.
Spin the dalek was the best part of the show!
The quasi-regeneration was daft. There's nothing you can really heal from a dalek death ray as they kill you instantly. It's as stupid as The Master not automatically regenerating. Does this mean he loses as regeneration if he did this one half-cocked?
It feels like they cut part of Jack's dialogue to Martha at the end. it should've been "Isn't there something more interesting you could be doing ... like me?"
They should have just killed Donna instead of regressing her. I feel the Doctor should've given Grandpa a ride.
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greenk9
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PostSubject: Re: 413: Journey's End   Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:50 pm

gosh did anyone see how bbc america butchered the edit for this one yesterday?
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PostSubject: Re: 413: Journey's End   Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:48 pm

That is why I am glad I dont have BBC America. I just wondered when WTTW 11 will be going past season 2.
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PostSubject: Re: 413: Journey's End   Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:35 pm

they bought series 3 but no date on broadcast yet- check outpost gallifrey- this week in dotor who and they give the dates of the broadcasts

http://www.gallifreyone.com/thisweek.php
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PostSubject: Re: 413: Journey's End   Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:33 am

I might be in the minority here, but I didn't really feel as if the "Doctor 10.5" quasi-regeneration was a cop-out. Given that the hand itself was a unique item (the only reason he could grow it back the way he did was because he lost it within the first 15 hours of his regeneration), and given that the first season of Torchwood shoehorned the hand into as many scenes as possible while Jack seemed perpetually distracted by it, we were set up regarding the hand's significance. It wasn't technically a deus ex machina because its importance was foreshadowed (by definition, a deus ex machina cannot be foreshadowed); we should have seen that the hand was going to be a plot-point at some time.

I'd be annoyed if such a stunt were to be pulled more than once, but this time, well...when he lost that hand in the first place, my wife and I said to each other, "Wouldn't a severed Time Lord hand be a pretty big deal to have just laying around on Earth?" We were pleased to see that it was indeed a pretty big deal.
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mattix
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PostSubject: Re: 413: Journey's End   Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:17 am

Absolute terrible episode.

Putting his regeneartion into his old hand? I agree with that Clavius bloke, if thats the case, just keep a stock full of fingers and stuff!

I was really pesimistic about donna when she joined, but I actually grew to like the idea of the doctor having a 'best friend' figure. So to see her go was kind of annoying.

And I'm sure I'm not the only who fan who's getting bloody sick of all these dalek finales! it was cool the first time, now its just gettin silly.

Maybe I expected to much after the rest of the season was so good
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