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 The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?

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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:45 pm

Honestly, fans have been dividing and turning on themselves long before this decision of a female Doctor was made. All this NuWho and Classic Who crap is just another example of subcultures arising from a medium, to illicit elitism amongst watchers of the same show. And it happens in every fandom out there. The media can play their part, sensationalizing the stories surrounding the new Doctor, but honestly, as fans, we should all be ashamed of ourselves for coming up with this NuWho terminology. It does nothing but divide us and to serve as a convenient 'out' for any fan, when something, ANYTHING, comes along that they don't like.

"I was a true fan when, blah, blah, blah happened."

Stories evolve, storypoints get changed/retconned constantly, as a way for it to survive. I was a comic book reader for 2 and a half decades. You wanna see something that changes on a dime, pick up a subscription of one title for a year, and see how drastically the protagonist changes in that short timeframe. Just because it hasn't happened before doesn't mean it can never happen in the future. What kills any medium is when the same things happen over and over again. With no new ideas, fans get bored, and viewership universally declines.

To the people leaving the show now without ever seeing the new series, or watching one episode and leaving, at least be honest with yourselves. This early into the announcement, the ONLY reason you are quitting, without ever giving Jodi Whitaker a chance, is because you don't want to see a woman in the role. †For that, you should be called out for being SLIGHTLY misogynistic.

This is, quite honestly, one of the few shows that should be able to do this kind of change easily. Not only can the storytelling be anything, like horror, comedy, sci-fi, action, etc, but the main character has always had to change every cell in their body to regenerate. Just because it took 50 years for a writer to realize that Time Lords don't have to be gender-locked, doesn't mean that we, as fans, should ignore the possibility or quit because of the possibility.

"All of Time and space; everywhere and anywhere; every star that ever was." - that's the true nature of this show. The fact that it, including its main lead, can be anything, do anything, go anywhere. It is, singlehandedly, the only show, ever created, that has its own built-in plot devices, to sustain it forever. And, while the original writers probably never foresaw a woman playing the role, they are the ones that opened that gate back in '63 when they created regeneration as a way for the show to survive.

As much as some do not want to accept it, it's been established, in continuity, that Time Lords can change their sex, and the Doctor is a Time Lord. †That is now canon in Doctor Who. Not NuWho. Doctor Who.
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:59 pm

More criticism of people who choose to leave Nu Who as long as we support the party (BBC) were good boys and girls but as soon as we disagree were rebels

Keep your freak show , I won't criticize you for staying but don't you criticize me (and quite a few others) for leaving.

And apparently the reason my post was removed 5 hours later was that the admins changed the rules AFTER it was posted. You now cant discuss sexuality either so if your PRO or CON on that subject its a no no (apparently the current series which I have not seen has sexuality as part of the story line and many oppose it)

Rating are in the toilet and driving away 40 plus year viewers is not a step in the right direction
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:16 pm

Of course I'll critize you for leaving, because your reasons for leaving are mysogynistic. Using terms like freak show and not watching because the Doctor is now a woman just goes to show your unpleasantness.

Only someone stuck in their outdated views would think that this would kill the show as a whole. They're not gonna pander to 40+ year viewers, quite honestly, because that demographic won't be around forever. They're going to write stories that bring in a newer and younger generation of viewers, so that the show can survive. Thinking that a 50 year old show is supposed to support only the views of its oldest viewers is not a step in the right direction. Honestly, man, think for a minute before you respond. How do you expect any show in television to survive without doing something to garner a younger, next generation of viewers?
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:23 pm

Ok folks...keep it nice to each other and not get personal. †

Admins and Mods have the right to edit and or delete posts if its felt that a member is crossing the "Be Nice" rule and offending members could face penalties if they continue.

http://whona.realtvboard.com/t5099-be-nice

Everyone is allowed their own opinion...don't get personal with other members with any responses.

Thanks, everybody and cheers!

Sea
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:29 pm

Kick me out if you want to. It's 1 message board. It's not like my time could be better spent elsewhere on the net. Bob1963 doesn't want to be labeled, and he calls himself a fan of the show, then he should be willing to give Jodi Whitaker the same exact chance he'd give any new Doctor.
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:37 pm

...and you nor anyone else will change his mind. He or anyone else would have to do that on their own.

Name calling doesn't help. Please just let him or anyone else feel any way they want without "calling them out" for not going with the change.

Thanks

Sea
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:42 pm

People bail on the show all the time after a Doctor change...and for personal reasons. The younger crowd left in droves after Matt Smith left because presumably they didn't want and older Doctor.

...and that's fine. The show continued without them.
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:48 pm

Thank You Sea Devil

Sadly this is the point going on all across the internet, one presents his views politely (as I did in my post) and this is what we get back.

Sorry I wont be personal attacking any one here or any where else but I reserve the right to defend my self if attacked. Thanks for stepping in before it got out of hand
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:48 pm

When the view is morally wrong, SeaDevil, nope, sorry, I don't sit by when people are ignorant to other people because of their gender, race, sexual orientation, or religion. See, being born in 1981, I'm in that rare group of Xennials. I've got the open-mindedness and accepting nature of a millennial, and the stubbornness/neglected middle child/need to be heard nature of a Gen X'er. If people are being idiotic, they need to be called out on it, otherwise, there will never be a chance to change a person's mind. And editing my post isn't ever going to change the truth about what Bob1963 is acting like.
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:50 pm

And Bob1963, I never called you out, originally. Your own mind made my original post personal and decided to call yourself out on it.
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:53 pm

...and you already said your peace in an unedited post before I asked everybody to be nice to each other.

So please leave it at that and comment no further.

Thanks
Sea
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:54 pm

Spidey I read a lot of peoples post that I personally don't agree with, what I do is I simply don't respond to them to avoid arguments.

I respect your opinion even if I disagree with it
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:14 pm

...and both of you have made your points clear, so I think we're done here.

Wink
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:30 pm

My main concern is that Iíve not been impressed by new showrunner Chris Chibnallís previous Doctor Who, Torchwood, or Broadchurch episodes. They shouldíve picked Patrick Ness for his surprisingly & consistently great Class. Donít bollocks this up, Chibnall! Hating the latest showrunner is a proud Whovian tradition! https://mattthecatania.wordpress.com/2017/07/18/wonder-woman-squirrel-girl-doctor-who-team-up/
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:35 pm

Well, you seem to have responded to mine very easily, Bob. You probably should've taken your own advice and moved along with my opinion you didn't agree with.

And, I'm sorry, I do not respect your opinion because it's morally wrong.
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:11 pm

Sorry but I fail to see where continuing a program in a traditional fashion is "morally wrong." Had the issue been stated something along the lines of "a woman has no place as the lead in a science-if series" that would cross the line. The objection here (unless I'm misunderstanding) would be the same if the Doctor was cast as a Sontaran. 54 years of tradition is hard to shake. Some people find alcohol consumption morally wrong, others do not. Some find gambling morally wrong, others do not. One doesn't need to support these much more important viewpoints to accept they exist rather than shout them down from a "holier than thou " soapbox. Read them, acknowledge others think differently, move on
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:34 pm

I am saddened, but not surprised, by the BBC's decision to cast a woman as the male Doctor Who. Part of the blame belongs to Moffat for planting the gender bending ideas to begin with. His behavior, both with WHO and SHERLOCK, is reminiscent of that of a child who stirs up trouble just to see what will happen and with no concern for the consequences.

Chris Chibnall must take the lion's share of the blame; it was his idea. This is characteristic of the arrogance of his generation (I have children his age). They believe their own "genius" overrides any sense of myth, continuity, common sense. As one of the above posts mentions, even Davis emphasized that the new Doctor is the same man as the previous eight. If the BBC had wanted a female Time Lord, it had plenty of opportunity to create a spinoff using the Rani or Romana or Jennie or Missy or something new. It did not want that; it wanted to imprint the concept of a "genderless" Doctor. The new iteration will serve, at first, to boost ratings, but it will mark the beginning of the end for New Who. Chibnall is the modern-day John Nathan-Turner.

Charlotte Moore, BBC Controller of TV Channels, has been working to put her personal stamp on Doctor Who since she took over. In 2015, in an interview for Radio Times, Capaldi revealed †how upset he was over the 8:30 time slot allotted to the program; it was too late. He also complained about the BBC's obsession with ratings. The result? The BBC let it be known that the drop in ratings may be related to Capaldi's age, that the drop in toy sales may be related to Capaldi's age and, finally, that there would be no new Doctor Who episodes in 2016, except for the Christmas special. If this were a novel, the villain would be a crooked politician or a Mafia Capo. Moore must also share the blame for this decision.

As for Jodi Whittaker, she is a second-tier lightweight of an actress. Her work on BROADCHURCH is not very impressive; she can yell; she can whine; she can...no, sorry, that's it. To repeat a quote attributed to the late Dorothy Parker, Whittaker "...runs the gamut of human emotion from A to B." Olivia Coleman, an accomplished actress, would have been a better choice, if the BBC were looking to showcase the best talent instead of looking to reshape social policy.

So, to the BBC and Mr. Chibnall I say, " A plague on both your houses!" You could have given the role to a male actor of color and have been applauded for your daring.

As for me, the Doctor is dead. He died this July. I will miss him, but I will take solace in the fact that I can view the performances of the 13 men (John Hurt included) who brought this wonderful character to †life over the past 54 years.
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:37 pm

To the SJW's it's an issue of "morality" that some don't accept a woman in the role of a character that as ALWAYS been a man. They view this as sexist. On the surface, that seems right, BUT the personally I find the issue is more complex than that.

While the gender-change of a Time Lord doesn't contradict the original series, but given there is no precedent for this outside of the last six or seven years, I call it a ret-con. That said... I think modern Who has done a pretty good job of ret-conning this, and I accept a female Doctor.

But that is MY opinion, and I respect that others might not accept the 'ret-con'. I realize some might even see this as political pandering shoe-horned into the modern series to advance some political agenda, rather than focusing on good science fiction adventure storytelling. That is their opinion, and they're entitled to it. I hope they're wrong. I hope series 11 continues as the Doctor Who I know and love... with the Doctor just happening to be in a female body now.

I'm not okay with sexism, but I don't believe that's what's happening here... at least not with ALL of the naysayers. I think a lot of these issues are just old-fashioned resistance to change.

What I'm really not okay with is people sanctimoniously labeling traditionalist fans with the epithet of a sexist. You don't change people's minds with name-calling and unkindness. We change them with calm, maturity, and discussion.
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:43 pm

Very well said, The Breen 😊
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:48 pm

CCSpidey81 wrote:
Well, you seem to have responded to mine very easily, Bob. You probably should've taken your own advice and moved along with my opinion you didn't agree with.

And, I'm sorry, I do not respect your opinion because it's morally wrong.

I'm sorry, but are you a theologian or a member of the clergy? Are you a philosopher? On what grounds do you label an opinion that disagrees with yours as "morally wrong"? What system of "morality" are you using? And why is it acceptable to dismiss the over 40 crowd and attack its values, but not acceptable to disagree with your view? Must the world be politically correct as judged by you?

As for the actress, are you an actor or a critic? Or is it possible that you wish change and agree with the decision because it brought about a very big change?
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:55 pm

Again folks...please keep the discussion to the topic of the new Doctor and not on each other, please.

Thanks
Sea
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:01 pm

Whooz wrote:
I wonder what Peter Davison thinks? scratch lol!

According to a report from Doctor Who News, he had this to say...

...the fifth Doctor Peter Davison called for an understanding of those resistant to change. "It might be more helpful to be encouraging, and not simply scornful, of fans who are uncertain about change.!!"

http://www.doctorwhonews.net/2017/07/reaction-to-new-doctor.html
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:07 pm

I have combined the two threads discussing the casting of the 13th Doctor. No need to have two threads discussing the same thing.

Sea
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:00 pm

I love this show. Always have. Always will.

Personally, I'm really excited by the idea of a female Doctor; I think there's great storytelling potential there. You've got a character that's been male for 2000+ years and is accustomed to walking into any room and taking charge of it by force of personality and intellect. It's going to be a lot of fun watching a woman do the same thing in periods of history in which that simply wasn't done. It reminds me of the fun I had watching Peter Davison play an old man in a young man's body; the contradiction between the inner and outer lives of the character was my favorite thing about his era, and it's a vibe I look forward to revisiting in this new context.

I get that people have reservations: change is hard, especially if you feel (whether rightly or wrongly) that said change isn't organic, or that it's being forced upon you. I also get that people who support this change 100% might still be worried, because they're afraid of what it will do to the ratings, and they want their favorite show to stick around.

But you know what? People have walked away from this show after every regeneration. They get in their heads the show's supposed to be a certain way, and the change alienates them. And that's fine! It's OK to want your entertainment media to come in a certain flavor, and there's nothing wrong with giving up on a show if it zigs when you want it to zag. Why consume media you don't enjoy, right? Life's too short to waste time watching something you don't dig.

So to those who are ready to jump ship, off you go, and thanks for having been a part of Who fandom! Enjoy all the spin-off media that will continue to be produced about previous Doctors (just because the current episodes will be focused elsewhere doesn't mean the Beeb will forget you're there and have money to spend) and enjoy the multitude of episodes we've already got. I hope you eventually come back. In the meantime, the show will do what it always does: attract a new audience to replace the one that left, because each new incarnation of the show speaks to a new audience, and that's one of the beauties (and strengths) of the program.

Every audience is temporary, and producers have to think about the future. And this time, they've piqued the interest of a big chunk of potential viewers who've previously had no interest in the show. Far from killing Doctor Who, this could be its biggest viewership boost in years. And if not? Thereís always another regeneration.

Are there a lot of sexist jerks who are angry solely because they stand the notion of sharing the clubhouse with more icky girls? Absolutely. I've seen posts from hundreds of them the past couple days, and their toxicity is both sickening and horrifying. But not everyone bothered by this change is bothered for those ugly reasons, and I won't treat the objectors as a single faceless mass. I'm excited; I've been hoping for a female Doctor for quite some time now. That said, I won't reflexively pre-judge anyone who isn't enthused by the notion. That kind of simplistic unilateral thinking, well...it's not really thinking, is it?

But I do think they might end up missing out on something cool.

Anyway, fighting over this is pointless. To each his/her own.
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:20 pm

Great post, Mystery Lad. Good to see a well thought out and inclusive "pro female Doctor " post.
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