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 The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?

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thebreen
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PostSubject: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:47 am

So, this may be a controversial subject, but it's one I feel is very worthy of discussion.

What do we think if a woman were to take over from Capaldi?

Now that we've seen "The Doctor Falls" we know that the regeneration is still coming up.  Capaldi said in a Graham Norton interview earlier this year that he's already filmed the regeneration scene... but offered no other details of the scene. I know there's speculation surrounding David Bradley... but consider what we've seen throughout Capaldi's tenure, and for that matter, Stephen Moffat's.

It feels very much like we're being 'prepared' for something.

Most obviously, there's the references to gender transition during regeneration have occurred throughout Capaldi's time (Missy/Master and the Time Lord General in "heck Bent", and the Doctor's chat with Bill in "World Enough...").  Further, empowered female characters are omnipresent (River Song, Amy and "Mr. Pond", Clara The Impossible Girl, Missy, "Me/Ashildir") - Not just strong, but women who've all outwitted the Doctor.  

Moffat himself has said in interviews that he'd love to see a female Doctor... but he's leaving.  Was it fair for Moffatt to plant all those hints and leave it up to Chris Chibnall to follow up? One presumes/hopes they discussed the issue beforehand, but will the new showrunner want to start their tenure with such a major change to the show's format/formula?



Personally, I'm of two minds on the subject.  
I'm open to the idea if it was handled well... but I question the finesse with which such a transition could be handled by production. Further, as a classic-era fan, I can't help but remember the times wen JNT floated the idea as a publicity gimmick. I cannot shake the feeling that casting a woman would feel like a stunt for publicity or maybe even an desperate act of pandering, instead of a proper bit of storytelling.  

On the other hand...  There are a number of actresses I could imagine taking over the role and being amazing (Hayley Atwell, Helen Mirren, Olivia Coleman, etc...). Ultimately, just like a male, whether or not a female Doctor will work will depend on the actor and what they bring to the role.

At conventions, I've heard some in the fan community (and even some affiliated with the production) express concern about the declining ratings. Some dismiss this as an inevitable decline in excitement now that we've passed the 50th Anniversary. Others question the wisdom of departing with the 'young/blokey Doctor' format of the 'new series' with the choice of an older Doctor Capaldi, pointing to declining ratings.  Would a female Doctor be a further departure that would harm ratings, or would the publicity/excitement generate higher ratings?

Well... I still don't know.  What do YOU think?  Is it time for a female Doctor, or , more to the point... Is THIS the time?

(I hope I don't have to say this as most on this board are very polite, but please be mindful of your comments.)


Last edited by SeaDevil on Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:15 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : combined two threads into one)
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SeaDevil
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:46 pm

thebreen wrote:
(I hope I don't have to say this as most on this board are very polite, but please be mindful of your comments.)

Indeed.  This is potentially a hot-button topic, so please be respectful of your opinions.

Cheers!   Smile

Sea
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Ben C.
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:18 am

At the end of the day, it's about money / ratings, regardless of intentions or desires. It's a television show made by a corporation, and they want to maximize their profit potential. Wonder Woman didn't get made because it was 'the right time' culturally, it got made because fans noted she was one of the best things about BvS, they wanted more, and the studio moved quickly to capitalize on that.

Like most folks, I'm perfectly happy with the idea of a female incarnation of the Doctor as long as the casting is great and the persona fits. Ethereal, smartest person in the room, the universe's greatest detective, a trickster even. Someone who commands attention but can plead for mercy without seeming desperate. Who is in control 90% of the time, but can 'break' and express fear and anger in a genuine and almost shocking manner. It's about the character, not the gender.

If I had to "describe the Doctor to a non-fan" via a list of traits, gender would not be on the list. Gender does not define the Doctor in any way (unlike, say, the much compared "James Bond"). The writing and direction would have to understand this, and continue the show focusing on the TRAITS and not the GENDER. My only fear is that a Series 11 would overwhelmingly focus on the physical nature of the gender change rather than the personality, coddling the fanbase to 'help them understand'. Similar to the coddling they 'provided' when Capaldi arrived and they felt the need to over-address the jump in age. It's just a 'thing'. The Doctor is still the Doctor, and has all the traits of the Doctor and will go on all the adventures you've come to expect - white hair or a vagina should be as inconsequential as becoming ginger.

That said - given the ratings performance of this past season and Capaldi's run (which I loved), I don't think the BBC is looking to take a big risk at this time, or 'alienate' even a tiny segment of their viewership. I think they'll play it safe - move back to 'what worked' - and see if they can bring the numbers up. If they can bring it back to the Smith era of fandom, then they might feel comfortable enough to try it in Series 14. And maybe Kate Winslet will be free at that time Smile

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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:21 pm

Like every casting, it would depend on who it was. So far, none of the names I have heard for the female choice really wow me. I don't think it will happen. I think the fact that we got Missy was awesome, and that was because of the actress and how brilliant she is/was. Maybe Olivia Coleman could pull it off.

I really hope we don't find out until the actual regeneration.

Oh, Wonder Woman started filming months before BVS came out. Her awesomeness in that movie didn't cause WW to be made. It just made me want to see her more!!
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:17 am

IF they go female for the next Doctor, I think it would be to their advantage to have a new companion too...so its somebody who does not know the Doctor.  It would also be helpful in the storytelling that it would be similar to how the Ninth Doctor was introduced through a companion-centric point-of-view.  That way, they can avoid the "oh my god...you're a man now?" stuff and just...carry on...

...until it comes up, obviously...but by that time...we'll have known the new Doctor as the companion will have, and it wont even be an issue.
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:43 am

Ronpur wrote:
Oh, Wonder Woman started filming months before BVS came out.  Her awesomeness in that movie didn't cause WW to be made.  It just made me want to see her more!!
Great point! I got that messed up in my head - filming for BvS ended a year before production of WW began. I read and watch a lot of movie related content, so I think I got confused Smile . I do recall the move to push WW forward did have something to do with the reaction to in-house test screenings of BvS and Marvel's announcement of a Captain Marvel movie in 2014.

Ronpur wrote:
I really hope we don't find out until the actual regeneration.
Me too. There are so many leaks and spoilers that come out months in advance for Doctor Who that I don't have much hope though. I've been trying to avoid reading anything about Doctor Who lately, but even headlines and images used for article links just give things away before I can avert my eyes Smile
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PostSubject: 13TH Doctor announcement 7/16   Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:15 pm

According to the BBC Facebook page, the 13th Doctor will be announced sunday, July 16th after Wimbledon. Two more days!
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:42 pm

Meh
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thebreen
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:29 pm

Well, now that the BBC says it will be announced this weekend after the the Wimbledon's Mens' Final... I genuinely wish good luck to those of you who want to avoid knowing. All you'll have to do is avoid EVERY Doctor Who fan site/vlog/blog/magazine, etc until Christmas! Wink

Still, I can't help but wonder what the fan speculation would have been like if BBC had announced the identity after the end of the Womens' Final! Some would have take it as a hint!
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:25 pm

I'm not excited about it. But I am curious.
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:24 am

I just wish they would keep it a secret...
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:27 am

It would be nice to have a surprise regeneration like we used to have on PBS in the 80's. Without knowledge of what was coming you really would be shocked when Tom Baker fell off that radio telescope and suddenly changed. We all know about the coming regeneration, but at least we could be surprised by the new face.

But with actors, agents, and producers all wanting to promote the series as well as media eager for a "scoop" they probably couldn't keep it a secret for 6 months. Heck, they couldn't keep John Simm a secret. Which is odd that a show these days isn't allowed to surprise and must always show you what is coming "next time" for fear of losing its audience. I guess we were more sophisticated 30 years ago when we'd watch on PBS for year after year without even knowing the title of next week's episode much less what was going to happen.
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:47 am

squishy wrote:
It would be nice to have a surprise regeneration like we used to have on PBS in the 80's.  Without knowledge of what was coming you really would be shocked when Tom Baker fell off that radio telescope and suddenly changed.  We all know about the coming regeneration, but at least we could be surprised by the new face.

But with actors, agents, and producers all wanting to promote the series as well as media eager for a "scoop" they probably couldn't keep it a secret for 6 months.  Heck, they couldn't keep John Simm a secret.  Which is odd that a show these days isn't allowed to surprise and must always show you what is coming "next time" for fear of losing its audience.  I guess we were more sophisticated 30 years ago when we'd watch on PBS for year after year without even knowing the title of next week's episode much less what was going to happen.

A-friggin'-men
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:55 pm

Is this going to be an actual program at a set time?
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:53 pm

I am going to hope for my old favorite, Alexander Siddig. Never happen, but I think he would be brilliant.
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:00 pm

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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:15 pm

Already was looking forward to Moffats departure, but now Im even more intrigued for the next season.

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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:01 pm

Well, will the writing be up to the job to usher in the 13th Doctor?

I found Missy's first stories terribly written for her.  She was no longer "The Master" intent of evil schemes but rather a love-sick, kissy-face goofball written with some of the worst "let's switch genders" stereotypes about.  All "Curse of Fatal Death" Dalek breast/bump jokes.  Actresses are now actors, stewardesses are now attendants, females are able to be chairmen, why couldn't she still be "The Master" instead of the diminutive "Mistress"? And not even a full Mistress, but a sillier Missy? It hasn't been until here last couple of stories that Moffat pulled way back and returned her to be the "competitive, old-school chum" who happened to end up on the wrong side of the Doctor.

If the Doctor remains "the Doctor" then it should all go fine.  If it ends up a whole season of "I'm a girl now, look at me being a girl", "let's flirt with the guards and look at my new boobs jokes" then I'll spend more time getting caught up with Big Finish.
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:53 pm

Well, I'm done with Nu-who.
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:00 pm

I think the best way to address the gender change on-screen is to not address it at all.

The Doctor has always been pretty much asexual anyhow, and that personality trait should not change. I think that if they do that and not be like squishy just said about "I'm a girl now, look at me being a girl", "let's flirt with the guards and look at my new boobs jokes", then I think the transition should be fine.

Don't draw attention to it...just continue on.

That's just my opinion.
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:02 pm

Being old school I can't say I'm happy about it. But I will watch them.
But to me the big difference is that I probably won't be buying any of the DVD's
as I don't feel I need to "own them" like all the other series. I think this was a mistake.
But time will tell.
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:02 pm

I agree with you SeaDevil... I don't think they should make a big deal out of it... I have a sinking feeling they will.
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:15 pm

I feel the same way in the four hour since I woke up threw up my breakfast and chatted with friends from Australia to New Zealand I can confirm I am probably done with NEW WHO. So far everyone in the USA who has watched the show since the 70's hates the decision. My mate in Australia who I just spoke to is giving up on the show after the Christmas Special. Another mate in New Zealand says he will watch and wait and see.

Hopefully this is a one episode publicity stunt but some how I don't think so
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:31 pm

I agree that the Doctor has been asexual...at least in the classic (ie. real) show. But he has been a "he" for a very long time. So to finally become a woman, he would need to address the physical change, it's inescapable. If he can comment "hmm...new teeth, new kidneys" etc. he will certainly notice that his tallywacker is gone or that he now has "etheric-beam locators". To ignore it would be wrong/silly.

What concerns me is all the flirting or starry eye-ness that will now be directed towards the Doctor from characters in the stories. Any male companion will now have the hots for the Doctor. A female companion will herald gay comments. These things just distract from the important thing...good stories! I did not care that Bill was gay/black/female...I was only concerned when the companion was annoyingly know-it-all like Amy and Clara.

As long as Jodie Whittaker doesn't try to act "male" like the actor did in the female Doctor Unbound Big Finish story, I'll be happy. Well, that and good stories...which this show has had a difficult time with for a while now...
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PostSubject: Re: The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?    Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:56 pm

I'm unsure, really don't know how to take it, but I am intrigued. Honestly shocked though, even though I probably shouldn't be. I will give it a go for a few episodes but if it's too much of a dramatic change then I will probably not bother watching the rest of the series.
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