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 S9E8: The Zygon Inversion (SPOILERS)

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Scary
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PostSubject: S9E8: The Zygon Inversion (SPOILERS)   Sun Nov 01, 2015 8:02 pm



Last edited by Scary on Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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Just Scott
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PostSubject: Re: S9E8: The Zygon Inversion (SPOILERS)   Mon Nov 02, 2015 7:41 am

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Ronpur
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PostSubject: Re: S9E8: The Zygon Inversion (SPOILERS)   Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:33 pm

I thought it was brilliant. Some very impressive acting by Capaldi.
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timewarrior
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PostSubject: Re: S9E8: The Zygon Inversion (SPOILERS)   Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:09 pm

holy crap that was good.
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fatsal
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PostSubject: Re: S9E8: The Zygon Inversion (SPOILERS)   Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:12 pm

Capaldi's finest performance to date and a quintessentially Who resolution. Just a brilliant episode. Might surpass Blink as the first episode I show those new-to-Who, it's just that good.
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squishy
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PostSubject: Re: S9E8: The Zygon Inversion (SPOILERS)   Sun Nov 08, 2015 1:57 am

Probably not the ending that many of the more bloodthirsty fans were wanting, but overall a satisfactory ending.  Dropped the whole "immigrant" thing they were going for last week with a strong message of "if your gut feeling to solving a perceived injustice is bloody violence, then you're probably not the best person to be remaking the world in your image".

Why did Kate want to push a button?  Either the Zygons all turn human and UNIT wins or all the Zygons transform and it's 20million vs 7 billion so UNIT wins.

Yes it was confirmed; Sullivan the Imbecile made the Zygon killing WMD.  Travel must broaden the mind and teach you how to be more effective at genocide.  Always hoped Harry would stand his ground and refuse to go along with such shenanigans.  

Kate survived New Mexico and pretended to be Zygon.  Very predictable and shockingly undetectable by a Zygon group who preferred their natural state.  After UNIT troopers acting incompetent last week it is now the Zygon's turn to fall for one of the oldest tricks in the book.

Despite all these issues I can say that the writers didn't totally screw things up and allowed the Doctor to have a very Doctor-y solution.

Grrrr, Osgood not only still lives but they are multiplying.  At least we now know it is some kind of bizarre Zygon cult with several taking on the same form, yet totally devoted to the gospel of the Doctor so it's all okay.
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Brain of Davros
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PostSubject: Re: S9E8: The Zygon Inversion (SPOILERS)   Sun Nov 08, 2015 4:45 am

Did nothing for me,just more Moffat plot fizzle.Nothing memorable or rewatchable for me I'm afraid.
I only enjoy the scenes in the Tardis these days and imagine what could be.
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mattmanw54301
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PostSubject: Re: S9E8: The Zygon Inversion (SPOILERS)   Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:24 pm

Stunning. Capaldi will have a tough time topping that speech.
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Scary
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PostSubject: Re: S9E8: The Zygon Inversion (SPOILERS)   Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:54 pm

That was simply sublime!! Absolutely amazing episode! For the first time in AGES, I nearly teared up to an episode of Doctor Who! That whole scene in the Black Archive was stunning! Both Capaldi and Jenna did AMAZING jobs in this episode!

Beautiful!! 5/5 cheers
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beep
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PostSubject: Re: S9E8: The Zygon Inversion (SPOILERS)   Sun Nov 08, 2015 1:19 pm

squishy wrote:

Yes it was confirmed; Sullivan the Imbecile made the Zygon killing WMD.  Travel must broaden the mind and teach you how to be more effective at genocide.  Always hoped Harry would stand his ground and refuse to go along with such shenanigans.  

I like to think Harry was forced to create the gas against his will under the orders of a commanding officer at Porton Down. Afterwards, Harry managed to slip a message to someone with a TARDIS about the gas and its location.
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Ronpur
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PostSubject: Re: S9E8: The Zygon Inversion (SPOILERS)   Sun Nov 08, 2015 7:48 pm

beep wrote:
squishy wrote:

Yes it was confirmed; Sullivan the Imbecile made the Zygon killing WMD.  Travel must broaden the mind and teach you how to be more effective at genocide.  Always hoped Harry would stand his ground and refuse to go along with such shenanigans.  

I like to think Harry was forced to create the gas against his will under the orders of a commanding officer at Porton Down. Afterwards, Harry managed to slip a message to someone with a TARDIS about the gas and its location.

I am going with that theory!
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Evil Monkey Pope
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PostSubject: Re: S9E8: The Zygon Inversion (SPOILERS)   Sun Nov 08, 2015 10:46 pm

"Let Zygons be Zygons" I always say
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squishy
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PostSubject: Re: S9E8: The Zygon Inversion (SPOILERS)   Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:34 pm

Scary wrote:
That was simply sublime!! Absolutely amazing episode! For the first time in AGES, I nearly teared up to an episode of Doctor Who! That whole scene in the Black Archive was stunning! Both Capaldi and Jenna did AMAZING jobs in this episode!

Beautiful!! 5/5 cheers

It will only get 4/5 from me. The Black Archive stuff was really good. I'm guessing it was the scene the writer had in mind, and then tried to build an episode around that one speech.

Such that it ends with a "joke" about the whole thing having occurred the same way the last 14 times. How long has the Zygon story played out since "Day of the Doctor"? Three years real time which we could stretch to maybe 5 or 10 years on TV? Doesn't that mean the "peace treaty solution" causes genocidal brinkmanship about every 8 to 12 months? The Doctor was chastising Kate about not being able to cope with "peace", but if the situation turns murderous every year with a new splinter group trying to start a war then what kind of peace is this? The whole Peace Treaty seems poorly designed if the Osgood Boxes are used so frequently. It makes the Palestinian-Israeli situation seem like a golden age of peaceful co-existence in comparison (apologies to anyone with an interest in that real-life condition).

The punchline "joke" wasn't required and undermined the whole speech. I think the TV producers are making some good stuff, but they could be doing better and making some great TV. If they want to provoke ideas and get me thinking like the very best sci-fi does, then they should edit the scripts a bit more.
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jonwes
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PostSubject: Re: S9E8: The Zygon Inversion (SPOILERS)   Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:22 pm

I thought it was really, really good. Capaldi's main speech was beautiful, and so so Doctor Who.

squishy wrote:

Why did Kate want to push a button?  Either the Zygons all turn human and UNIT wins or all the Zygons transform and it's 20million vs 7 billion so UNIT wins.

Kate's buttons did different things that the box the Zygon's had. Either it released the gas Harry created to destroy the Zygon's or it blew up a bomb destroying the tower and all of London.
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squishy
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PostSubject: Re: S9E8: The Zygon Inversion (SPOILERS)   Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:26 pm

jonwes wrote:
I thought it was really, really good. Capaldi's main speech was beautiful, and so so Doctor Who.
I agree on liking the speech.  A very Doctor-ish solution.

jonwes wrote:

squishy wrote:

Why did Kate want to push a button?  Either the Zygons all turn human and UNIT wins or all the Zygons transform and it's 20million vs 7 billion so UNIT wins.

Kate's buttons did different things that the box the Zygon's had. Either it released the gas Harry created to destroy the Zygon's or it blew up a bomb destroying the tower and all of London.
My feeling was why should UNIT risk pushing a button at all.  Either button the Zygons push is a win for UNIT.  I guess from the Doctor's speech UNIT may want to risk pushing a button first to hopefully release the gas and avoid the horrors of war.  But the risk for Kate is so great that she'll kill 10 million or more London residents.  Doesn't seem worth the risk.
But coming up with a good dilemma for both sides must be difficult for the writer without adding even more plot holes. Doubt that I could have improved this any. Maybe that's why a Twin Dilemma has never been well-regarded in Doctor Who. Question

But I'd have changed the final "joke" from 14 times to just "the last time".  Still the same idea, but without the consequences of Earth being in constant peril of mindwiped diplomats starting a world war.
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fatsal
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PostSubject: Re: S9E8: The Zygon Inversion (SPOILERS)   Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:41 pm

I think Kate's willingness to push the button was almost reactionary. If the Zygon is going to do something, then she instinctively must do something too. It allowed for a nice moment, though, when she felt shame for how she behaved and apologized to The Doctor, thus making his point about forgiveness for him in a way.
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